Omega SM300 delivered to RCAF.

[ianp]

From a post on VRF - http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...dian+Air+Force

It would be interesting to see if it has any case back markings.

IAP

[Billy]

RCAF "PX" watch - or actual issue ? Seems impossible to tell from the info from Omega. Perhaps the owner will post images of any caseback markings (if the watch has any).

Kind Regards,

Billy

[Tim(PMWF)]

Wow, nice! My grandfather was in the RCAF (WW2 era). If he ever was issued a watch, I don't think he kept it, or my uncle has it. I only have an old Solar watch of his, which is literally boy size.

Tim

[Don Aldo]

The RCAF ceased to exist on February 1st, 1968 (when the Air Force, Navy and Army were unified under the umbrella of the "Canadian Forces") - which is more than 6 months prior to the production date of this watch.

Supposing the order had been placed by the Canadian government prior to unification, it could mean that the RCAF (or what once was the RCAF) took delivery of the watch but that it ultimately ended up being issued to another branch of the forces.

I'm definitely remaining skeptical about this piece for now and a caseback pic would go a *very* long way.

[martin]

That's Jatucka's watch, it seems!

[Don Aldo]

Originally Posted by martin

That's Jatucka's watch, it seems!

Still, it would be nice to see a caseback pic.

[martin]

Originally Posted by Don Aldo

Still, it would be nice to see a caseback pic.

I'm getting the implication that it's unmarked, Jatucka seemingly had no idea until he'd got the information reply from Omega.

[watchyouwant]

no wear marks ; strange ! the very aged bezel indicates good outdoor use of this watch and the bars do not match that. kind regards. achim

[jatucka]

Originally Posted by martin

That's Jatucka's watch, it seems!

Originally Posted by Don Aldo

Still, it would be nice to see a caseback pic.

Originally Posted by martin

I'm getting the implication that it's unmarked, Jatucka seemingly had no idea until he'd got the information reply from Omega.

you are right Martin.

as i wrote you,i did not even know that is was an RCAF watch until i get the infos from Omega.

any engraving in the caseback.

the caseback is "blank",polished also from the Omega engravings.

intresting and strange watch,i think.


cheers from Italy.

[Don Aldo]

Originally Posted by watchyouwant

no wear marks ; strange ! the very aged bezel indicates good outdoor use of this watch and the bars do not match that. kind regards. achim

The same thought crossed my mind as well, those bars look very minty fresh and not at all commensurate with the wear on the watch.

[Don Aldo]

Originally Posted by Don Aldo

The same thought crossed my mind as well, those bars look very minty fresh and not at all commensurate with the wear on the watch.

As well, by 1968 - weren't Omega putting the broad 'sword' hands onto their Seamaster 300 watches? As well, wasn't the naiad crown originally put on the SM300 watches from this vintage (and the screw down crown only for the British military issue SM300)?

http://www.old-omegas.com/pics/italy68cat/p8.jpg

Jatucka, please don't take this personally but the hands, the apparent lack of wear on the bars, the RCAF not existing anymore by August 1968 (I've read what you mentioned about the minor mistakes Omega could make in terms of their record keeping but when you add this to the other things, it just seems even odder)... it's just a perfect storm of mini contradictions that makes my nose say "something's not right here".

That said, getting rid of all caseback markings is sort of in line with what the Canadian military could do when officially decommissioning a watch. Please forgive me for being "on the fence" about this watch but to my eye, it almost looks like someone may have rebuilt the case in recent times. That is to say, buy an SM300 case from WatchCo (or the Omega parts pipeline) and then expertly attach new bars - but continue to use the original bezel, dial, movement, etc. I realize this is a bold statement and do take it only for what it is: conjecture. I obviously don't have the watch in my hands but do you think this is a possibility?

[qcnguyen]

congrats on such an exciting find

Originally Posted by Billy

RCAF "PX" watch - or actual issue ? Seems impossible to tell from the info from Omega. Perhaps the owner will post images of any caseback markings (if the watch has any).

Kind Regards,

Billy

[jatucka]

you could be absolutely right,nothing to say about that.

but....

how many MilWatches have had the hands changed in the years?

lot of SM300 U.K. have had the hands changed.

the fixed bars could be cleaned,or changed,for example (as you wrote)....

the very important thing about this watch,i think,is the serial number.

and the serial number says that this watch was originally sold to the RCAF.

if you want i could send you this serial number,and you could personally check it with the Omega.

as i already wrote,i did not even know what kind of watch it was until i received the info from the Omega.

anyway,thanks a lot for your opinions :-)

i appreciate it.

cheers from Italy.

[jatucka]

i'd like also to clarify that :

i bought this watch from one of my customers.

when i asked news to him concerning this watch,he told me that he bought it in England some years ago as a "normal" SM300,and he dont know nothing more about it.

as for all my other Omega,i sent picture to the Omega Museum and i asked info and Extract for it.

and this is the Extract that i received back.

why should i think that in the watch there is any problem....

i really dont know.

thanks again.

cheers from Italy.

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Don Aldo

As well, by 1968 - weren't Omega putting the broad 'sword' hands onto their Seamaster 300 watches? As well, wasn't the naiad crown originally put on the SM300 watches from this vintage (and the screw down crown only for the British military issue SM300)?

http://www.old-omegas.com/pics/italy68cat/p8.jpg

Jatucka, please don't take this personally but the hands, the apparent lack of wear on the bars, the RCAF not existing anymore by August 1968 (I've read what you mentioned about the minor mistakes Omega could make in terms of their record keeping but when you add this to the other things, it just seems even odder)... it's just a perfect storm of mini contradictions that makes my nose say "something's not right here".

That said, getting rid of all caseback markings is sort of in line with what the Canadian military could do when officially decommissioning a watch. Please forgive me for being "on the fence" about this watch but to my eye, it almost looks like someone may have rebuilt the case in recent times. That is to say, buy an SM300 case from WatchCo (or the Omega parts pipeline) and then expertly attach new bars - but continue to use the original bezel, dial, movement, etc. I realize this is a bold statement and do take it only for what it is: conjecture. I obviously don't have the watch in my hands but do you think this is a possibility?

about the hands in the sm 300 RCAF : the sm 300 shown in the upper left is
a W10 delivery from 1967 with all "gladio" hands ;
in the first UK deliveries ( about watches ALL confirmed by Omega ) from 1967
and 1968 we have infact seen either gladio hours hand and "straight"
ones ; nevertheless we have seen from these two years also dials either with
the big triangle at 12 and with the trapezoidal one ( the watch in the lower
line belongs to the 1968 delivery ).
last but not least please check that the shade of the tritium in the indexes
perfectly matches to the one in the hands, so it seems that we still have the
original hands in this watch.
about the welded bars : the welding strings may look new , but their shape is
not different from UK's watches , and also that the "brand new" look can depend
also on a polishing made.
I have also seen a genuine and confirmed W10 with rewelded lug in which the size
of the strings and their colour was completely different.
about the presence of the screw-down crown keep present that there is no
"rule" as :
a) delivered UK watches with this crown had the "A" engraved in the back ;
b) unissued UK watches seen ( but confirmed as military ) still have the snap crown
and original Omega engravings in the back ( not erased ).
BUT this is related to UK deliveries : there is no proof that RCAF had the same "scheme".
so they could have well changed the original snap-crown without reporting it
in the back ( every country has his own peculiar way of "handling" military watches ).
the real main problem with these watches is the confirmation of the movement as a military sale :
so why buy a new case and weld lugs again in a watch that almost has the
same value of a "standard" one ???
P.S.: please forgive the intrusive Rolex milsub !

[Franco]

Originally Posted by Billy

RCAF "PX" watch - or actual issue ? Seems impossible to tell from the info from Omega. Perhaps the owner will post images of any caseback markings (if the watch has any).

Kind Regards,

Billy

Hi Billy

from what I see, the most likely explanation is that this is one of the many military issued watches which have been sterilised. We all know of Milsubs and Lemania swedish that once ended in civilian hands have been dismantled, backs put on a lather to erase the marlings, and then sold.

The owner (whom I know as a reliable collector) infact only came to know the past from the Omega extract, and only noted the unusual history as an academic curiosity, rather than a possible marketing tool.

I would also have thought that most of the times the fixed lugs were removed and drilled - this time of course "civilianization" (does it exist?) didn't go all the way.

Ciao
Franco

[Don Aldo]

Thank you Marcello and Jatucka for the insight (and the pics!). I'm glad my skepticism led to this thread which, thanks to you, is now very rich in information. This is exactly the stuff that makes the MWR archives DVD so worthwhile to own. As for me, I'm now convinced. Like many of the other members here, I'll definitely be on the lookout for other examples on the market.

[Rrryan]

Originally Posted by Don Aldo

The RCAF ceased to exist on February 1st, 1968 (when the Air Force, Navy and Army were unified under the umbrella of the "Canadian Forces") - which is more than 6 months prior to the production date of this watch.

Supposing the order had been placed by the Canadian government prior to unification, it could mean that the RCAF (or what once was the RCAF) took delivery of the watch but that it ultimately ended up being issued to another branch of the forces.

I'm definitely remaining skeptical about this piece for now and a caseback pic would go a *very* long way.

I wouldn't dwell too heavily on (mis-)use of the nomenclature. Not only is there potential for overlap or just confusion dating to the period as you state, but Omega has been known be somewhat... unsophisticated about the history of some of their military watches. The old "RAF" W.W.W.'s for instance…