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Thread: Smiths Mk X just sold on ebay . . . .

  1. #1
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Default Smiths Mk X just sold on ebay . . . .

    Anyone here get this:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-mil...p2047675.l2557

    Listed, pulled and then sold as a BIN.

    First impressions:

    Dial looks wrong but it is the JLC-style "2-screw" type with the screw heads visible, patina and style seems commensurate with purported date.

    Hands look right, same type also used in v early Smiths (the "RG" range c.1947-50), also JLC-esque, either bought-in from them in Switzerland or reverse engineered by Lenoir.

    Case: 13322 Dennison s/n 3917 three-piece; crown and fixed bars look original

    Markings: A.M. 6B/[159 double strike through] 300, s/n 12149/42

    Movement: Mk X all the way. Note the screw head between the crown and centre plus the clear pallet stones.
    Last edited by Revo; 12-27-2017 at 13:15.
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under £4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for £5. Recently their price seems to have risen to £8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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    Oh FFS!

  3. #3

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    Hi.
    I bought it, I wasn't 100% sure what I was looking at but had seen similar watches on here not long ago, so gave it a shot.

    Cheers, Michael

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    Member hookedseven's Avatar
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    Congrats... and you don't have to look far for a buyer as Oliver's been after one forever.

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    Sell it to Revo!

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    Default auction images


    vintage military/pilot? A.M. 6B/300 men's hand wind sub dial watch-working order

    This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing.





































  7. #7

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    Double thread??
    Hi.
    I bought it, I wasn't 100% sure what I was looking at but had seen similar watches on here not long ago, so gave it a shot.

    P.S

    I remembered reading about these watches on here, I remembered the screw on the movement, funny thing is the week before I had read about this movement on here I was sure I had seen one on eBay and went back to search, that one had a white dial like I have seen on here.

    Cheers, Michael

  8. #8
    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael e View Post
    Double thread??...
    no, I just moved it from the post exchange; the rev has probably been on the wine again!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    no, I just moved it from the post exchange; the rev has probably been on the wine again!
    I think he is just double excited

  10. #10
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    no, I just moved it from the post exchange; the rev has probably been on the wine again!

    It was a rather excellent Sauvignon Blanc. Chilled to perfection
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under £4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for £5. Recently their price seems to have risen to £8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  11. #11
    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    damn, just found the other thread.. no wine involved for me..

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    anyone else seeing a mismatched case.. ?

  13. #13
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    Based on the numbers stamped on the lug?
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under £4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for £5. Recently their price seems to have risen to £8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    looks like 59.. however 17 could follow.. maybe just an oddball.

  15. #15

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    wow, interesting (and I thought all the Smiths surprises were done for one year!)

    I wonder if the dial is an older reprint - perhaps the original was damaged some time ago? Reason I think this is the complete mis-match between the sub dial and the outer numerals (so consistent with a dial refinisher, who would have outer dials and sub-dials in a variety of different styles). Both of them are pretty generic in their own way and neither have any relationship with the length of the minute / seconds hands.

    Also interested to see that the cases were originally marked 6b/159 (apologies if this was frequent with the 6b/300), but interesting to see that Smiths were so confident about filling the 159 contract.

  16. #16
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Yes I wondered if the original dial has been stripped back to the brass, crudely printed and lacquered? If so it was done early in the watch’s life as that Art Deco font would have been passť by the 50’s.
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under £4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for £5. Recently their price seems to have risen to £8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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    Senior Member isologue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjones View Post
    wow, interesting (and I thought all the Smiths surprises were done for one year!)

    Also interested to see that the cases were originally marked 6b/159 (apologies if this was frequent with the 6b/300), but interesting to see that Smiths were so confident about filling the 159 contract.
    Nothing about the Mark X is seen very frequently due to extreme rarity:-)

    This is only the third issued case back to emerge, from what I remember. The two seen in the wild have been remarked. (That style of engraving is pure Smiths). The thing to remember is that 6B/300 is reserved for a (sub seconds) Mark X watch, so dates from c 1944/45. 6B/159 designates a Mark VII, so relates to the centre seconds version, and 1942 is right for that. The 13322 case was used for the unissued examples of the Mark X seen to date so the whole adds up to an oddity. (The 12322 case was still being used to case up movements in 1942 but the watches were smaller - 10 ligne?).

    From the evidence I would guess that the cases date from the Mark X period; they were marked up with the 1942 contract numbers that related to the 6B/159 (which Smiths could not have produced in any numbers) then remarked as 6B/300s when it was decided to accept the sub seconds watch as a Mark X (whose spec was written to accommodate what Smiths could accomplish). None of this makes much sense of course.

    Regards,

    Martin (isologue)

    P.S. itís not possible is it that the remarked cases related to the few watches that were produced as cs but converted easily enough to sub seconds when the Mark X spec was issued? They could be counted as part of the Mark X order to be fulfilled if so, even though produced c 1942.

  18. #18
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    I agree with Martin: Smiths tried and failed to make a cs watch (2 known examples, both more or less direct from Smiths) then conceded and stuck to the sub seconds “1315” forerunner of the 1215 with a 13 linge dial and baseplate that sits on a lip in the case. Owen Gilchrist knows more about this than I.

    Also, the two or three other Mk Xs that are “issued” (but were they really?) have s/n 12xxx/42 iirc
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under £4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for £5. Recently their price seems to have risen to £8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  19. #19

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    For its worth, I suspect this is a redial: the characters are quite different to the immediate post-war illustrations as is the dumb-bell sub-secs hand which Smiths didn't adopt on their wristlets until 1951-ish.

    As Martin says, and as is shown in military papers, the /300 is 1944/45 so this was likely an end of war trial batch for Smiths was not at a production stage even by spring 1945.

    The good thing about collecting is that another one will soon turn up... much cheaper!

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    I think Owen Gilchrist also pointed out that there’s a screw hole for mounting a centre-seconds cock on this type of movement. It does seem as though the original intention was for it to be CS, but perhaps there was a fault in the design. Even in the late 1940’s, Smiths weren’t entirely confident sounding about supplying a CS movement design for the GS Deluxe requested by the MoD.

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