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Thread: Helvetia flieger ID movement

  1. #1
    Member pilotswatch's Avatar
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    Default Helvetia flieger ID movement

    I need to replace the stem and crown for this Helvetia flieger but
    all I’ve been able to find is Helvetia Caliber 51A. When I do research on this caliber, nothing comes up.
    Anyone?


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    Member Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    I believe that alfat33 has one of these. Actually, I know he has because I've seen it.

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    Member bubba48's Avatar
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    I have the same curiosity




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    Member pilotswatch's Avatar
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    Nice example bubba48. Still searching for the caliber.

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    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
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    Paulson fingerprint shows a Helvetia 51-9 and a 51-10 as a 16L but the barrel and winding gear are reversed as in the click is not at the balance end. Beyond that these are the same. 16L is a large watch. The smaller 10 1/2L and smaller are not close to this one. I think that Helvetia was part of the General Watch Co?

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    Thank you DaveH. Now to find a stem.



    This is the other variation that I have , Helvetia caliber 80.


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    Member bubba48's Avatar
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    This is the 51S


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    The two bridges match except the drawing shows a Lepine (crown at twelve) and this is a Savonette. I think the stem won't be easy to find.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    I believe that alfat33 has one of these. Actually, I know he has because I've seen it.
    Hi Alan,

    I do have a very similar Helvetia (off for a service at the moment). However the calibre is 81, for which NOS winding stems do come up in eBay from time to time. It's quite a small movement, 10.5'''. My crown is a modern replacement and I am looking around for a replacement as well.

    I also have a Helvetia with a cal. 51a. However it is a pocket watch and a larger movement, similar to the 32a found in the GSTPs.

    Sorry I can't post pictures right now but I will do tomorrow when I am fully online.

  10. #10
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
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    my watch materials are Marshall, they have Helvetia under "General" watch co. I have two stems 200L which are listed as for #81. If you can't find one, I'll send you one of my two. regarding the 16L movements:I looked in the bestfit book and the correct stem for the 30-32 and (probably 51) is listed as #1096F with nothing listed in the interchangeable lists. A stem for the open face and hunting movements are probably the same and the 32-31-51 are also probably the same. The whole Bestfit Swiss ebauche scheme is full of surprises all designed to make you buy something. The stem will be a butt simple one with a squared tip, and a slot for the detent. The size of the tip may differ and the width of the detent slot may differ, but this can be fixed with a lathe in a few minutes. Best bet is to find someone with a box of unknown stems and start trying the ones that look close. So much of this stuff is just Swiss foolery. The movement could just as easily be a Meyer Studeli or an obscure AS that was made and sold to General. A lot of that stuff was going on in the ebauche days. There could be a half dozen substitute stems but Bestfit doesn't want you to know that, so you get what they want you to know. The shape of the set bridge is identical for 30/9,31/9,32/9,34/9, 30/13,31/13,32/13,34/13 so that tells you that the same stem probably works on all of these movements and most likely the 31/7,32/7,and 33/7

  11. #11

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    Well I think DaveH pretty well nailed it .

    For what it's worth, here is my 51A pocket watch movement. I measured it just under 35mm which I make 15.5''' but it could be 16'''.



    Here is the 81 that Carlton-Browne referred to.


    I'd be very interested in finding out more about the OP's watch. I have seen a couple for sale, sometimes listed as a B-Uhr which I am not sure is right.

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    Member pilotswatch's Avatar
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    Thanks DaveH for the info and the offer. I'll try one of the 31,32 stem. They are easily found.
    Lovely flieger watch Alfat33 and thanks for the picture of the 32A.

  13. #13
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    I just got this message from a seller of stems on Ebay. Not very encouraging.
    “Hello, the Helvetia 51-10 is extremely hard to find, and I don't have it in my stock. The Helvetia 32 is not compatible, it is the 30A which is ok (not the 30 but only the 30A). Also hard to find ! I wish you good luck.
    Best regards.
    B”

  14. #14

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    Thanks for the compliment pilotwatch. Shame about the stem rarity. BTW my pocket watch picture was of a 51A not a 32A. The 51As are rarer but maybe you could find a pocket watch version for spares or repair; it probably won't be expensive.

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    I guess that’s what I’ll have to do, find a donor but meanwhile I try a few stems I have.
    Thanks for your helps guys,appreciate.

  16. #16
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    Thumbs up

    I was lucky and found one with the help of Bruno “moivetou” on Ebay.
    He pointed me towards Windingstems.com who have a few 51-10 examples left.
    A happy ending.

  17. #17

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    Nice one. Thanks for sharing the website.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Here is the 81 that Carlton-Browne referred to.

    I wanted to add that I have just had this watch back from being repaired and serviced by Rob Horan, who did a superb job and very prompt as well. I'm sure Rob is known to some on here; his website is www.roberthoran.eu

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    Senior Member river rat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I wanted to add that I have just had this watch back from being repaired and serviced by Rob Horan, who did a superb job and very prompt as well. I'm sure Rob is known to some on here; his website is www.roberthoran.eu
    You know those are good prices for a watch service a little less than two I just sent off for a service in the states we seem to pay a little more.

  20. #20
    Member pilotswatch's Avatar
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    Nice example alfat33.
    Got the stems, looking for the right crown. Thought I had one but it doesn’t fit. I think the case crown tube has been shortened.

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