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Thread: First Real Watch, WWW GRANA, Need Info

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    Default First Real Watch, WWW GRANA, Need Info

    Hi guy so ive been on here before for my grandfathers old Rolex`s and today picked up my first real watch. Ive always loved some of the old WWWs and was familiar with the rarity of the Grana. Now i have no idea if i got a great deal or lost a whole bunch.

    Some of the exact info he provided
    "This example is a part of a small consignment of Grana contract watches which were designated 'W.W.W specification' with white, A.T.P dials."

    A comparative example is illustrated in the notable publication British Military Timepieces by Knirim, [page 553]. The serial number for the watch illustrated in Knirim's book ['M 2119'] is particularly close to the serial number of this Grana watch.

    Just looking for info thanks so much

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    "A comparative example is illustrated in the notable publication British Military Timepieces by Knirim, [page 553]. The serial number for the watch illustrated in Knirim's book ['M 2119'] is particularly close to the serial number of this Grana watch."

    I don`t have a way of looking at P553 but this is more info the seller provided.

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    http://www.ulricofengland.com/prodsh...a/b001919.html

    So it turns out the seller copy and pasted a lot of the information from this site. The hands are different but everything else looks exactly the same.

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    Greetings, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this is not a Grana WWW.
    All WWW watches have black dials. WWW Grana have been selling for about 5000 sterling pounds-- I suspect you would have thought twice and double checked here before such an expense.

    What you got is what's known as a frankenstein watch, that is a is a mixture of different parts that don't belong together.
    It's a Grana ATP dial (white) which has been grafted onto a WWW case. I doubt it's a Grana WWW case but there's no way to know until you get the watch opened and post a picture of the engravings inside the case back. A movement pic is also helpful.
    I hope you didn't pay too much, or that the watch is returnable.
    Whoever sold it as a Grana WWW is a crook.

    You need to do careful research on every part of the watch you're interested in if you're going to buy vintage watches, be they military or civilian.
    Any part that's wrong will alter the value of the watch.

    Best regards
    S

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    Thanks so much. Im going back and forth with the seller now with the information you provided, despite some great feedback he remains dead set that it is what he said it is. His response is as follow.
    "The very first consignment of grana watches for the british army was with white dials. ATP watches are 1 mm smaller than www watches and this one is the right dimension. Maybe your friend doesn't know that. If you see the "holy bible" of every collector, British Military Timepieces by Knirim, you will find the picture of the first consignment of grana and those are with white dials. I'm pretty sure of that."

    I believe a refund is possible. Do you still believe that is the correct direction to go? Thanks again.

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    welcome to the forum (again?).

    firstly I'm most intrigued as to what is said on page 553 of KK; can anyone check please?

    I am aware of the ulric watch; it has been for sale for ages and ages.

    I have always considered it to be absolute poppycock!

    it appears that you have an ATP watch; the case back has been skimmed and remarked.

    ATP cases are plated; WWW cases are stainless steel.

    I have seen several faked up ATPs; usually the dial is also changed to black.

    I am looking at this and seeing a 100 watch!

    there are several known instances of watches being downgraded and also upgraded.

    this is probably highly unlikely in this case.

    KK page 553 anyone?..

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    page 553: Photos of ATP watches upgraded or downgraded. First photo is of ATP Grana, matching OP's watch, remarked on the back to WWW.

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    page 560: "From time to time watches of the ATP show up bearing ATP plus WWW markings, or even WWW markings only. These watches have been marked prematurely by subordinated authorities, followed by an army order to strike out the WWW markings with a horizontal line & at the same time reapply the markings ATP where appropriate"...."however an ATP remains an ATP, even if by mistake it is marked WWW & a genuine WWW of aforementioned brands will be easily identified as such, even if there have been issued ATPs of the same brand. So it is no problem to differentiate between ATPs & incorrectly marked WWWs...."

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    This watch has been on the forum before, posted by "mysticalsnail"who got pretty much the same information as you have been giving now. If I knew more about links and things I could point you straight to it but I'm sure now you know it's there one of you experts will soon find it. I came across it when I was researching my Timor www/ATP

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    Just checked eBay.
    I guess you guys don't think this watch is worth 1430!!

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    Thanks for that info, the images he provided no longer work but yeah it sounds like the same watch. I did pay around 1500 ($1850) but was indeed actually able to get a refund with the help of all the information you all were able to provide.

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    Rob - thanks for the info.

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    Default auction images


    Extra Rare WWW GRANA Military Vintage Watch - WW2 Amazing Piece cal. K.F. 320

    Winning bid: EUR 1,545.87 - Approximately 1,409.45 GBP - 21 bids



































    This example is a part of a small consignment of Grana contract watches which were designated 'W.W.W specification' with white, A.T.P dials. These may have been the first consignment of W.W.W. watches before the introduction of black dials.

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    Yeah that was me who bought it and i was able to have the sale canceled before it even went through. Hope the seller doesnt continue trying.

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    here's the link that was mentioned -

    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...rana-WWW-Watch

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    well ulric still wants 975.00 for his one -

    http://www.ulricofengland.com/index....v405906hx28452

    but then he has had it for rather a long time...

    that ulric one has increased in price from 975.00 to 2,750.00

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    Come gather around people, wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters around you have grown
    And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
    If your time to you is worth savin'
    Then you better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone
    For the times they are a-changin'
    Come writers and critics, who prophesize with your pen
    And keep your eyes wide, the chance won't come again
    And don't speak too soon, for the wheel's still in spin
    And there's no tellin' who that it's namin'
    For the loser now will be later to win
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

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    I've had a couple of legit www marked atps, John senior bought the last one. Think it was a lemania. Cant recall off hand. Www marked atps exist, whether this is one....

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    I owned M2539 w/ KF 320 movement (mentioned in the previous 2012 thread) sold it last year.
    msa6712
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