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Thread: Omega SM300 mil briefly listed and then pulled

  1. #1
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    Default Omega SM300 mil briefly listed and then pulled

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Genui...vip=true&rt=nc

    Sold offline?

    Thoughts about it? Look ok?

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    Default Images were introduced



    Order of the Invisible Ethereal Electron with Crossed Wizard's Wands

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    Default 0552 - A/014/68


    what!

    this was the recent Bonham's watch that did not sell; were there any serious issues?

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    ah, no extract of the archives!

    the movement dates to circa 1964; the case back issue date is 1968.

    and of course the lack of that now all important encircled T on the dial.

    a potential buyer could have some concerns..

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    17 jewels movement points to USA delivery, not MoD.

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    Apparently it is the watch that was is the June bonhams sale just been cleaned up

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    yes, as usual, all about the circle T. As for archive extracts I personally don't think this matters quite as much (the first SM300 over 50K had no extract) - bear in mind that Milsubs are all about the case number - not the movement, whereas the Omega extract is all about the movement number not the case - so you could have a military movement in a normal SM300 casing, no fixed bars etc, no circle T and it is still seen as a military watch. This baffles me as a great deal of the SM300 were - as we know - damaged in action and many movements were replaced by MOD services / watchmakers who may well have used any movement to hand - I've had SM300s with authentic 1970 cases / dials and movements from 65, 66, 67, 68 etc - I'd only buy a SM300 with the dial / spec I want - never really been that bothered about the movement or the extract . The one featured here look 100% right, but no Circle T. Hard to sell. Would you buy a Milsub without the tritium mark?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunkman View Post
    yes, as usual, all about the circle T. As for archive extracts I personally don't think this matters quite as much (the first SM300 over 50K had no extract) - bear in mind that Milsubs are all about the case number - not the movement, whereas the Omega extract is all about the movement number not the case - so you could have a military movement in a normal SM300 casing, no fixed bars etc, no circle T and it is still seen as a military watch. This baffles me as a great deal of the SM300 were - as we know - damaged in action and many movements were replaced by MOD services / watchmakers who may well have used any movement to hand - I've had SM300s with authentic 1970 cases / dials and movements from 65, 66, 67, 68 etc - I'd only buy a SM300 with the dial / spec I want - never really been that bothered about the movement or the extract . The one featured here look 100% right, but no Circle T. Hard to sell. Would you buy a Milsub without the tritium mark?
    Would you buy a Milsub with an incorrect movement? You got on my case over a second hand on a Lemania SAAF, and now you are saying an entire movement is not important? That an extract from Omega on military issuance of the movement is not meaningful? Seriously?

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    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EZM1 View Post
    17 jewels movement points to USA delivery, not MoD.

    Good point. And suggests low mileage and/or recent replacement, otherwise the brass bushes would have been replaced with jewelled ones.
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    the movement dates to circa 1964; the case back issue date is 1968.
    I'm not an SM300 expert, but the "-64" on the caseback dates the case to 1964-ish, from what I can remember. Unless the MoD typically held onto watches for years before engraving them.

    If I was spending tens of thousands of Pounds on a watch, then there's zero chance I would buy one without an extract of the archives. Otherwise you may as well just buy a Watchco SM300 in my opinion.

  11. #11

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    You know... When it does not feel right... it usually is not!
    Its a great watch but with too many open questions. So the valuation should be made accordingly.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oski View Post
    Would you buy a Milsub with an incorrect movement? You got on my case over a second hand on a Lemania SAAF, and now you are saying an entire movement is not important? That an extract from Omega on military issuance of the movement is not meaningful? Seriously?
    All I am saying is that many original SM300 Mil movements were replaced. There are lots of 565 movement out there - hence authentic military SM300 with earlier or later movements which I regard as being correct in terms of them actually being military watches as long as the rest of the spec is correct. The Omega extract simply states movement number and nothing else about the watch. So in theory you can have a extract for a SM300 movement sent to the UK military and stick that movement in a watcho case with new SM300 luminova dial and hands and sell it as reconditioned military SM300. Ultimately it's down the the individual buyer, their aesthetics and what they are after for their own collection. I am not getting on anyone's case at all, merely stating what I have seen and learned over the years. I bought my first one of these when extracts weren't even talked about. And as I stated earlier, the most expensive one sold so far had no extract.

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodabod View Post
    the "-64" on the caseback dates the case to 1964-ish...
    oops, good point, I missed that; so all is not lost..
    Last edited by dave; 08-13-2017 at 03:16. Reason: oops.

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    I'm so confused.

    It's a "/68" on the caseback, not "-64".

    And all the discussion on the movement, which isn't even in the photos, presumably reference to the details in the Bonhsms listing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddman View Post
    It's a "/68" on the caseback, not "-64".
    Inside caseback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodabod View Post
    Inside caseback.
    Now see the Bonhams link!
    Last edited by dave; 08-13-2017 at 06:04. Reason: fixed quote.

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    The reason it's not sold with an archive is that it's not a favourable one from omega? As far as the dial goes, it's all about that T , without that it's never going to pass the smell test. It's value is no better than a civilian version in my view.

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    Senior Member foilguy's Avatar
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    are there any examples of omega military 300's either w10's or 0552 with inner case dates a lot different than military issue date? Or do most not have a year date after the model number?

  20. #20

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    From the few images I've seen of Ref. 165.024 the date year is not stamped on the inside of the case back. The 4 examples seen in KK's book also do not have a date year stamped inside the case back.

    Terry


    Quote Originally Posted by foilguy View Post
    are there any examples of omega military 300's either w10's or 0552 with inner case dates a lot different than military issue date? Or do most not have a year date after the model number?

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