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Thread: Swiss made Helvetia pocket watch with SS Runes and Skull and Crossbones

  1. #1
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    Default Swiss made Helvetia pocket watch with SS Runes and Skull and Crossbones

    Hello All
    I am new to the forum and also very new to military time pieces. I do a lot of buying and selling and have a booth at the local flea market. The guy next to me Sunday had a watch on his table that looked very interesting and after a quick google search I saw that this watch was indeed issued to German service men. I have found quite a bit of information through past auctions of watches similar this one, and have found many with engravings but none like this. I had the watch inspected by a local jeweler and the watch was determined to be genuine and works well, and the engraving was view under magnification and was determined to have been done professionally by hand.
    I have many questions I am hoping you all will be able to answer- and mostly I would like to know if anyone has ever seen one just like it. From what I have read, the "serial number" on the back of the watches were engraved by the military not the maker, and the numbers may denote the branch. I read that the D and the H mean that the watch stands for "Deutsches Heer"(German Army) and only appeared on Swiss made watches issued in 1939 and 1940. I am curious to whether or not the watch was engraved by the SS for the SS officers or if this particular original owner had the watch engraved after he received it.
    I understand that many things such as silverware and various items are engraved in Western Europe and sold as Nazi relics, but for the sake of argument- how would one possibly know? I spoke to a collector of Third Reich relics I found online- but he knew almost nothing about timepieces and was quick to tell me about all of the engraved junk people try to sell him. I can't dismiss the possibility of the watch being genuine purely on conjecture, so I am hoping to find some concrete evidence here.
    Lastly I am not a collector of watches nor do I have any interest in owning Nazi memorabilia. I bought the watch because I know that there are people who are collectors and something like this belongs in a collection. I am very interested in knowing as much about the watch as I possibly can before I will be ready to sell it. I appreciate any help the forum members may be able to offer on this piece!

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    I also found a lot of information here in this expired ebay auction- the seller give quite a detailed description of German military watches: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WWII...-/161570780183
    Last edited by Zeitraffer; 08-08-2017 at 13:06. Reason: pictures not posting

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    welcome to the MWR forum.

    here are some instructions for posting images to the forum -

    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...s-to-the-forum

    another option is postimage; there is no need to register.



    ah, well done, I see that you have now got it sorted.

    Last edited by dave; 08-08-2017 at 13:10. Reason: added footnote.

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    Don't want you all to have to lay your monitors on their sides to get a good look- here are some upright photos for those who are straining their necks! Sorry!
    Also it may be worth mentioning that the person I bought the watch from had no idea it was anything other than a Swiss pocket watch and did not even notice the Nazi markings or look up any information on the watch. All inquiry has been based on my own interest- he was just selling an old watch as far as he knew. His price was very low even for just an old watch and I actually talked him into letting me trade him 10 LPs from the boxes I was selling for the watch.
    IMG 9832
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    The watch looks like a genuine issued military pocket watch but the runes and skull are a hoax.
    Regards,

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    Hi east Al I appreciate your response- I am looking for evidence and reasons this may be a "hoax". Please give me some concrete information that I can research and validate! Also, if it is some sort of hybrid relic/hoax what is the value or devaluation?

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    that symbol is representative of the 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf.

    however I too would express my doubts as to its authenticity..

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    Senior Member foilguy's Avatar
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    Nasty sandblasted fakery, ruining an otherwise legitimate watch.

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    Can anyone show me some examples of similar fake etchings? Can I still sell it as a vandalized legitimate watch?

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    Senior Member foilguy's Avatar
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    There have been many over the years, trust me, German watches were my interest before I broadened my collecting habits . There is probably even a rogues gallery on the gmwf, run by Enzo, aka lige, if you want to join and take a look. Also if you want definitive proof, just speak to him, what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing. More importantly it's the application of the mark that is most telling. It's been either acid eroded or sand blasted.

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    Thanks I signed up and am awaiting approval!

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    Super Moderator dave's Avatar
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    that rogues gallery on GMWF has now been decimated by photobucket and speedos..

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    that rogues gallery on GMWF has now been decimated by photobucket and speedos..
    Well that's too bad- I'd love to see some examples. I have contacted Ziggy in the UK and he gave me some definitive answers about the watch- agreeing with you guys about the watch being genuine and the etching being bogus. Thank you for all of your answers- it appears I have been 1/2 duped and now I have gained an interest in antique military watches out of spite. IF anyone is interested in the watch please let me know- I've reached the end of the line on my inquiry.

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