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Thread: Letter from Longines on Longines Ref 3582 Czech Aviator watch "Tartarugone"

  1. #1

    Default Letter from Longines on Longines Ref 3582 Czech Aviator watch "Tartarugone"



    Err..MWR buddies..long time no see as O has been rather busy, n having fun kicking arses elsewhere so to speak.

    They say better late than never.

    O wrote to Longines to enquire n have asked Longines quite a few questions regarding this watch on 31st Jan.
    The reply finally came on 13th March.

    THIS here proves that LONGINES has the COMPLETE archive records of most if not ALL its millions of watches ever produced in its legendary n one of the longest established watchmaking history since 1832.

    In fact, the LONGINES Hallmark Logo of Winged Hourglass is the OLDEST registred trademark of any SWISS Made watchmakers..

    The only other SWISS Made watchmakers that would have the complete assessible archive records of its watches produced since its history would perhaps be OMEGA..n perhaps a few of others like Patek Philippe, Breguet, IWC, JLC etc., for instance..
    BUT certainly from own experience, NOT with ROLEX SA..especially on their watches made prior to the mid 60s.

    As a collector of old Vintage timepieces..it is important peace of mind n comforting to know that one can opt to seek the service n assistance from the watch producers such as seeking the above confirmation that what one possesses especially on the historically important grail vintage watches would NOT be a freaking FRANKENed vintage watch commonly MADE UP by Dealers or resellers..
    ANYWAY..

    The PROVENANCE of this here LONGINES Czech Air Force Aviator "Majetek Vojenske Spravy" or nicknamed as the "TARTARUGONE" watch by the Italians passionados or afficionados, would be celebrating its 79th birthday in THIS year..2017.������

    Oh by the way..as O had expected it before, LONGINES confirms by this letter saying that the CB engravings were actually made by LONGINES factory before its delivery to the Czech Military..���� So no original Longines CB engravings = Civilians.

    There are a few more questions that O have asked Longines particularly on other matters relating to its original technical specs, which Longines have not been able to provide their full reply yet. Hopefully they would subsequently after this.

    Nevertheless, this watch is a keeper..

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BRk1IHJB...PtCIwZKNTzUA0/

    Thanks for watching,


    Best regards
    Orchi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchi View Post


    Oh by the way..as O had expected it before, LONGINES confirms by this letter saying that the CB engravings were actually made by LONGINES factory before its delivery to the Czech Military..���� So no original Longines CB engravings = Civilians.





    Thanks for watching,


    Best regards
    Orchi.
    Hello!

    Interesting indeed but not as clear as you think.

    I have a very similar watch, from a slighly earlier batch. November 1938, the very first batches with the 15.26 caliber. The extract of Longines register for my serial number also mentions the majetek engravings, but strangely enough, they are not stamped on my watch!

    May be some were shipped before the engravings were made, or they were possibly erased at a later stage, nobody knows.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by stiocour View Post
    Hello!

    Interesting indeed but not as clear as you think.

    I have a very similar watch, from a slighly earlier batch. November 1938, the very first batches with the 15.26 caliber. The extract of Longines register for my serial number also mentions the majetek engravings, but strangely enough, they are not stamped on my watch!

    May be some were shipped before the engravings were made, or they were possibly erased at a later stage, nobody knows.
    Yes buddy..or perhaps the previously Longines engraved CB got lost,
    n later replaced with the existing CB on your watch now, from somewhere?

    Yeah..who knows for sure..


    Best regards
    Orchi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchi View Post
    Yes buddy..or perhaps the previously Longines engraved CB got lost,
    n later replaced with the existing CB on your watch now, from somewhere?




    Best regards
    Orchi.
    No, sir! Longines can now reconcile (for some watches, depending on the age) the serial number on the movement, and the 4 or 5 digit number engraved on the caseback (Inside or outside, depending on the watch) which corresponds to the batch order for the caseback. My caseback has the right number, so it was not replaced. This number has nothing to do with the case reference number ( 3582 for this watch, not mentionned on the caseback).

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by stiocour View Post
    No, sir! Longines can now reconcile (for some watches, depending on the age) the serial number on the movement, and the 4 or 5 digit number engraved on the caseback (Inside or outside, depending on the watch) which corresponds to the batch order for the caseback. My caseback has the right number, so it was not replaced. This number has nothing to do with the case reference number ( 3582 for this watch, not mentionned on the caseback).
    Oh..perhaps as you mentioned, the Majetek reference got erased.
    IF so, the CB could even be thinner..?

    Best regards
    Orchi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchi View Post
    Oh..perhaps as you mentioned, the Majetek reference got erased.
    IF so, the CB could even be thinner..?

    Best regards
    Orchi.
    this is precisely why the other possibility is that some watches were shipped to the Czech distributor without markings, although they were to be delivered to the army, as indicated on the registry. November-December 1938. I guess there were other priorities....

  7. #7

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    Great service by Longines. Sorry to hear about the wait for a response. I emailed about a caliber 12.92 on April 2 and had a reply by the 4th.

  8. #8
    Senior Member foilguy's Avatar
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    How long where the Czech (presumably in exile until late '45~not pilots, but the bureaucrats) issuing the Longines? For instance there is a 1947 example, correct case numbers with lug, final series movement and dial, marked up on the case back with the usual 'Majetek.....' on Ebay. Also the numbers sometimes confuse me. For instance, this one has 1825 as a military issue number, whereas i've seen earlier ones with later numbers. One thing that may be the case is that this one has the markings at an alignment 90 degrees to earlier marked ones. I wonder if they reset the numbers when they rotated the markings.........Scratch that, alignment seems not to be a factor, looking at ZAF's examples.
    Last edited by foilguy; 04-07-2017 at 02:36.

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    Hi!

    to the best of my knowledge, the latest issues were indeed in 1946-1947 with the 15.68z caliber, metal dial.
    the additional number to which you refer to is still a mystery. You have the same problem for the additional number on many other Longines : the one to for digit number that is often printed below the order reference number, and sometimes on one lug. Logically this additional number should be a serial number within a batch order of casebacks, but to date, Longines cannot confirm that.
    As to the alignment of the Majetek markings I have no idea. Generally speaking it could be that there are a lot a fake markings. In this respect, it is certainly a good thing that Longines can now check on their registries the ones that were to be supplied to the army. But even in this respect, there may be exceptions , more particularly with the first batches hosting the 15.94 caliber. That would be interesting to check!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinking71 View Post
    Great service by Longines. Sorry to hear about the wait for a response. I emailed about a caliber 12.92 on April 2 and had a reply by the 4th.
    Hey buddy..usually Longines do not take more than a week with their reply.
    But guess O asked them too many questions that they had to spend more time
    getting the infos that O needed.

    Still an excellent effort from Longines HQ customer service.


    Best regards
    Orchi.

  11. #11

    Default So..

    Where does this one fit in...

    Original enamel, cal 15.94, inside caseback movement numbers., mid case numbers all present and correct so no swapping of case parts...





    My extract from Longines states that my watch was invoiced on the 20th May 1937 to the company Guth which was at that time our agent in Bratislava.
    I believe that this may be one of the first Batch that was delivered with no military CB marks. I have no firm evidence just that Guth were the agent for Government Services at that time.. (Czech Airforce)

    Regards,

    Nick.

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    When did you ask Longines?

    if it was more than 2 years ago, it might be worth asking again because they may now tell you more about your Majetek.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickb View Post
    Where does this one fit in...

    My extract from Longines states that my watch was invoiced on the 20th May 1937 to the company Guth which was at that time our agent in Bratislava.
    I believe that this may be one of the first Batch that was delivered with no military CB marks. I have no firm evidence just that Guth were the agent for Government Services at that time.. (Czech Airforce)
    Regards,
    Nick.
    Err buddy..quite possible that the CB engravings might have been repolished off at later stage..

    Usually back in those days, resellers or buyer folks ended up with these military watches, did not like the watches still looking like being a government property.

    How else to explain in official military department, IF these watches had no visible numbers on the outside origunally. They would not be able to easily recognizable or be recorded at all..

    Most if NOT all military watches or government equipmemt had to be marked, painted, punched or even engraved by hands, because they had to. Part of the official policies governing military property..

    It is only logical..

    Best regards
    Orchi

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by stiocour View Post
    When did you ask Longines?

    if it was more than 2 years ago, it might be worth asking again because they may now tell you more about your Majetek.
    Well Sir,

    I did exactly that and indeed they came back today with pretty conclusive evidence that these watches were indeed some of the first watches issued to the Czech Pilots. As we have believed all along there were certainly a number of Majetek watches that were shipped hastily and Not engraved to the case back. I should imagine these early rare Majeteks are few and far between. Incidentally my watch is completely correct in terms of matching movement numbers, caseback numbers, so everything belongs together and No the case back shows no sign of having been skimmed!!!



    Time to start checking your "unissued" Majeteks Gents.

    Kind regards,

    Nick.

  15. #15

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    Exactly as I've always understood Nick. Well done with the sleuthing. Proof indeed from Longines. Ian.

  16. #16

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    Thanks Ian.

    These early enamel dialled 15.94's definitely flew on the wrists of these brave Czech Pilots.




    Cheers,

    Nick.

  17. #17

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    Yes. Lets remember those Czech and Polish Squadrons who flew in the Battle of Britain and ensured our survival in 1940. Something the current climate has forgotten.

  18. #18
    Senior Member foilguy's Avatar
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    I'll have to Czech mine with longines🤣

  19. #19

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    Don't Polish the CB

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