Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Inter-Service GS Watch, AKA DEF-3

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    London (formerly Edinburgh)
    Posts
    1,342

    Default Inter-Service GS Watch, AKA DEF-3

    Hi,

    I've been doing some research into the GS watches of the 1950's, ie. the Omega '53, Smiths GS Deluxe, etc.

    The following text is a timeline of events and discussion which follow up to the procurement of these watches. It is largely centred around Smiths, but there is mention of other watch types, so have a read if this sort of thing interests you. I have added a few notes at the end, with just some of my own speculation.

    I'd appreciate it if you did not replicate the text elsewhere, but I'm happy for it to be copied onto other websites if you ask me and reference it. I usually wouldn't be too bothered about stuff like this, but it did take me a lot of time and effort.

    Cheers.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    London (formerly Edinburgh)
    Posts
    1,342

    Default

    Watch Standardisation For Inter-Service

    02/48:
    Engineering Standards Coordinating Committee (ESCC) set up to discuss the design of a standardised watch. This would aim to rationalise watches supplied to RAF, Navy, and Army by studying exisitng standards and then design and build a new watch to a common specification. There are references to "C.S.(A)" and "C.S.(M)" branches* (Note 1) in this discussion.
    03/48:
    Standardisation Design Memorandum 143 shows that current preferred wristwatches in use by the RAF are: 6B/346 "for aircraft navigators only", 6B/159 "for navigators or pilots use only", 6B/234 "for general service airborne and ground use".
    08/48:
    First meeting of the ESCC committee. The War Office representatives report that they had already decided to provision a GS watch to spec RS/Prov/4373A as and when demands arose. This spec number refers to the common "WWW".
    11/48:
    Copies of RS/Prov/4373A (WWW) and G.633 (Mk VIII) are distributed to committee members to provide a reference for existing watches used by Army and RAF. An ESCC meeting takes place: it is decided that the WWW specification should be used as a basis for the new GS specification, and each clause in the spec will be amended accordingly. For a very rough draft, the spec for the GS is stated as follows:
    Minimum 15 jewels (or 16 if centre-seconds), 12-13 ligne, non-magnetic balance spring, Breguet overcoil. Centre-seconds hand undecided and awaiting further opinion from RAF and Navy. Trade mark/name shall be on dial which is luminised as per WWW spec. Hands shall be skeletonised for lume and seconds hand white. Waterproof case with screwed crystal ring. Waterproof gland to seal stem.
    12/48:
    Second meeting. Discussion surrounding whether the movement size range should be increased to 12-15 ligne or not. It is agreed that it should remain 12-13 as having the spec too wide would invite too many alternative makes to respond to tender. It is suggested that the watches should be tested in 4 positions and should not deviate by more than 40s between any two positions within 24hrs. The watches will also endure high and low temperature tests, and it is suggested that the WWW temperature test results should be examined for reference.
    01/49:
    Third meeting. Navy report they'd be happy with a sub-seconds hand, although most watches currently in use have centre-seconds with synchronising stop (hack). RAF report that they will insist on having centre-seconds, but a synchronising stop is not required. Army report that the centre-seconds would not be considered essential and suggest that it would introduce unnecessary increased maintenance and cost. They could also not see the value of a centre-seconds unless it was equipped with a hack device. It is agreed that for temperature testing, the high temperature of the Mk11 spec can be used. Antimagnetism testing was added to the GS spec. Essentially the watch shall endure a magnetic field of 150 Oersteds and then prove to not stop or suffer derangement after removal from the magnetism.
    02/49:
    Rough draft specification is issued. Main details to note are: centre seconds, 18.5mm strap bars spaced 3mm from case constructed from 1.6mm rod, drilled and soldered into position, glass shall be perspex, dial shall be matte black with a vertical baton at "12" flanked by spots with a broadarrow above "6", strap to be determined.
    Fourth meeting takes place: agreement that a centre-seconds hand is acceptable for all three services. Case steel specification is still to be investigated. RAF suggest that shock protection may be welcomed, but the committee agree to omit any mention in the GS Spec. It is agreed that the drawing for the WWW case design will be considered for use for the GS model and a copy of this drawing should be sent to the Instrument Department.
    03/49:
    Fifth meeting. Straps are discussed and it is reported that the RAF would accept a webbing strap provided it was khaki. The Navy are still awaiting reports regarding the use of Bonklip straps. The WWW case drawing is to be amended for GS use.
    04/49:
    Sixth meeting. Further discussion on refining the temperature tests. Lubrication oils are discussed and it is agreed that separate temperature tests should be applied to these. The Navy agree to accept the use of a webbing strap. They agree to acquire a copy of the Army webbing strap specification. Stainless Steel BSS En. 58D will be specified in the case drawing, and it is considered to be antimagnetic. The case drawings are reportedly complete.
    The strap referred to in the meeting is then reported to be a Spec. N.F203/7 "fabric, 5/8" wide, tropicalised" which is "recognised as special for this jungle warfare strap".
    05/49:
    Smiths and Goldsmiths & Silversmiths Co. Ltd. are contacted and a rough quote is requested for an attached copy of the new draft GS specification.
    06/49:
    Seventh meeting. Goldsmiths & Silversmiths have reported that their estimates for making a GS spec watch would not be significantly more than the equivalent prices paid for WWW watches. Discussion surrounding the recommended 5/8” strap leads to agreement that the lugs should be narrowed by 1mm to 17.5mm. The case design drawings are entitled “Case Watches Wristlet Watertight – GA”* (Note 2).
    07/49:
    Eighth meeting. The movement oil which they have temperature tested appears to be satisfactory. There is further discussion regarding refining the parameters of the watch temperature tests. A period of fourteen days is given to the committee members for any further amendments for the final draft.
    08/49:
    A “final draft” of the GS specification is created and sent to Smiths. Smiths reply saying that they have already been “assessing the various problems involved in the manufacture of watches to meet the Services specification”.
    10/49:
    The RAF, Army and Navy have been invited to give approval of the final draft. Meetings are arranged with Smiths which are considered significant since “it is possible that a Development Contract on Smith’s may be necessary if action is to be taken to promote the manufacture of a suitable watch in this country”.
    A first meeting at a new location is held to “discuss and consider the proposal that Smiths English Clocks Ltd. Should be contracted to undertake the development, design and manufacture of Central Service wrist watches”. It is mentioned that “it was important on strategic grounds to develop in this country”. Smiths who are present at the meeting state that none of their existing components made for 15 jewel watches could be utilised. The MoD asked Smiths if they had sufficiently developed their technique of hairspring manufacture to be enable them to produce a watch to the GS spec. Mention is made of the problems experienced with hairsprings used in Smiths engine speed indicators. Smiths state that they would provide three prototype examples after designing the watch. Supply of watches from the newly completed production tools would be available in approximately three years from commencing the project. “The meeting agreed that approximately 300 watches would be required for extended service trials”. The total estimated cost of development and production of 300 watches is 23,000.
    11/49:
    A report from meeting discussing the GS watch mentions that the development of this watch at Smiths would raise the quality level of the “medium grade” watches they produce and that “if the project is successful it may result in direct government contracts on Smiths for the supply of larger quantities for service use”.
    12/49:
    A letter makes reference to a recent C.S.(A)* (Note 3) ruling that could limit development of a GS Watch contract being raised. Another letter mentions “It is considered for strategic reasons it is essential to develop the manufacture of a suitable service watch in this country as in the event of war it may not be possible to rely on the supply of Swiss watches as hitherto”. Smiths are asked whether or not if the design was amended to be a sub-seconds type, could this be made to the remaining specs using their existing 12-ligne movement.
    02/50:
    Dennison Watch Cases Co. Ltd. Are sent a copy of the draft GS watch spec.
    03/50:
    Smiths test five production movements “with a slight modification to the material of the escape wheel and lever” and send the results to the MoD* (Note 4). They mention that in the published results that all watches fail on anti-magnetism tests and that Nivarox and Chronovar hairsprings will need to be compared to see how they respond to magnetism. They also state that designing an all-new centre-seconds movement would be more satisfactory * (Note 5).
    04/50:
    Dennison send a drawing of their newer “Aquatite” case to the MoS . They state that it would be cheaper to use their existing consumer design. The earlier Aquatite type case was supplied to the MoS between 1942-1945.* (Note 6)
    Smiths hold a meeting with the MoS to discuss the GS movement design. They state that they can not modify their existing movement design to be centre-seconds due to the additional load that it would impose on the gear train* (Note 7). Smiths are to borrow a sample Mk11 watch from Herstmonceaux to evaluate how the magnetic screening is achieved. They state that to use their existing movement design, they would need to use careful selection in order to meet the specifications, and that it would possibly be better to create a new movement design instead. The MoS agree that they are best to aim for a new movement design. They also state that their backing of the UK watch industy could ultimately lead to them being able to produce a Mk11 navigators watch.
    05/50:
    Smiths inform the MoS that Dennison’s Aquatite case would not be suitable unless modified for housing their movement plus antimagnetic cover.
    06/50:
    Ninth ESCC meeting. Mention is made that the MoD’s case drawings have been sent to Dennison for inspection.
    11/50:
    Fourteenth ESCC meeting. An Admiralty representative states that the GS watch will not replace their existing hack-set chronograph wrist watches. They also state that Naval pilots in single-seater aircraft require a hack mechanism to avoid the use a separate stop watch. The RAF representative stated that the GS watch would not replace the Mk11 watch used in longer range and larger aircraft. The meeting agrees that it still stands that a standard Royal Navy / RAF navigational watch is not yet possible due to their differing needs. The Admiralty Chronometer Dept. state that they have compared a sample Smiths watch to a Mk11 and believe it shows encouraging improvement in British watchmaking.
    12/50:
    Fifteenth ESCC meeting. They discuss the inclusion of a VPI vapour inhibitor.
    Standardisation officers meeting. They state that 300 GS watches have been ordered for the “AM” for field trials.
    08/51:
    The MoS mention that they have asked Smiths to evaluate the advantages and disadvantages of having shockproof settings.
    09/51:
    The MoS mention that they have been asked to order 9400 MkVII watches for the Air Ministry from Switzerland. It is suggested that they could instead order GS spec watches instead, assuming that these would be a suitable substitute.
    10/51:
    A note is published stating that it seems clear that the AM will accept the GS watch (now generally referred to as “DEF 3”) as a replacement for the MkVIIa and MkVIII watches. It Also mentions that “it is not considered that it would be wise to attempt the recasing of existing MkVIIa watch movements” * (Note 8) since it is estimated that recasing would cost more than purchasing new GS-spec watches from Switzerland. It is then stated, “I rule out the possibility of obtaining a worthwhile quantity of GS wristwatches from Smiths within eighteen to twenty four months”.
    A meeting is held at Smiths to review their progress: Mr Lenoir is Smiths representative. Lenoir states that they “have been working along two lines of development”; a new centre-seconds movement, and modifying their existing 12 ligne movement to centre-seconds and adding a Breguet overcoil. Smiths have done a considerable amount of work and now believe that they would have little difficulty in meeting the GS requirement. The MoS ask if this modified movement would be suitable for a British-made Mk11 watch, but it is suggested that it would be better to initiate a separate contract for the newly designed movement.
    The MoS state that the Air ministry has forwarded a firm demand for sprung balance staff mountings (AKA shockproof) on any GS watches supplied to the RAF. Lenoir replies saying that Par-Choc mountings would be easy to incorporate. Smiths mention that currently their mainsprings were sourced from Switzerland, but they are looking into UK sources. It is asked if Smiths had considered automatic winding. Lenoir responds saying that they are considering it.
    Production dates are specified as taking 7-8 months to complete tooling, and production beginning 5 months later with a gross output of 1000 movements per week. Development and tooling would take at least two years for the newly designed movement.
    Conclusions from the meeting are as follows. The modified 12 ligne movement is accepted for the GS design as long as it includes shockproof jewel settings. RD Inst. (Research & Design for Instruments?) are to investigate the possibility of placing a contract for the development of a British-made Mk11 watch.
    11/51:
    22nd ESCC meeting. There is discussion around the urgency for supplying MkVII watches to the Air Ministry which it has already been suggested could be substituted for GS watches. Due to the urgency, it is suggested that these should be made in Switzerland, and this would be in addition to the 300 already ordered from Smiths.
    Shockproofing and VPI discs are mentioned as requirements from the Air Ministry. This leads to raising the question of whether these details should be included in the DEF3 spec (since the spec is for all services). It is suggested that these details should be included as the Air Ministry would be advised to incorporate these same features in the AM Mk12 watch.* Eventually, it is agreed that shockproofing should be added to the DEF3 spec.
    06/52:
    A letter mentions that a new “joint service” reference number will need to be made available for the GS wristwatch.
    01/53:
    Meeting with Smiths. Smiths say that they are looking into the possibility of developing a design of mounting similar to the Vibrax, where only the endstones are sprung and the staff is flexible. It is mentioned that the dial design should be modified in light of service experience with the Mk11 watch. Smiths state that 300 pre-production watches would be available at the end of May 1953.
    They also say that they are designing an automatic wristwatch as a commercial project. “It is thought that this 26mm movement with direct centre-seconds might be suitable for the basis of a Mk11 watch with suitable modifications. Smiths ask to borrow a JLC and IWC Mk11 watch for testing and state an interest in undertaking the development of a Mk11 watch. They believe that production of the new movement which they were developing could begin in mid 1956. If this movement was not deemed suitable then another design would have to be created with production beginning late 1956 or early 1957. “It was then agreed that R.D.Inst.2 would initiate action to place a contract with the firm couched in general terms for the development of a British-made Navigators wrist watch based on the requirements of specification G.943”.
    02/53:
    In a loose minute, GS spec revisions are discussed. It is recommended that a “Mk11 watch with revised presentation” and an Omega GS watch are brought along to an ESCC meeting for inspection. However, it is suggested that the GS spec should not be revised and published prior to the delivery of the Smiths GS watches.
    ________________________________________________
    Note 1: I would think that there must be a relation between C.S.(A), C.S.(M), and the perhaps better-known C.S.(I). I might suggest that “A” could be “Air” as it often is used in this way, and “M” could perhaps be “Munitions”.
    Note 2: That’s why the strap lugs are not the typical 18mm. Seems slightly odd to design a case around a strap.
    Note 3: Mentions C.S.(A) again.
    Note 4: Looking at the results, 3 out of 5 fail the test of keeping the daily rate between positions to <30s. Speculation from myself is that the balances could have their poise improved, but it could possibly be related to other issues too.
    Note 5: This is the first hint at development of what became the Smiths Imperial movement, aka Cal 0104.
    Note 6: I don’t remember an “Aquatite” branded case being used during this period, though Dennison cases were used for MkVII and MkVIII cases. I doubt they’d be considered water tight though. Any other ideas?
    Note 7: This suggestion is a bit short-sighted of Smiths. Of course you can add an indirectly-driven seconds. Other companies had certainly been doing this, so I don’t see what the worry was.
    Note 8: Evidently this took place in 1956 when they decided to re-case MkVII watches in what was the newly designed GS case.

  3. #3
    Moderator dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    6,201

    Default

    bravo - thanks Roddy.

    and plenty of food for thought..

  4. #4

    Default

    Totally agree with Dave .... a great resource for the community, thanks Rod.

    Terry

  5. #5
    Member Kiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    80

    Default

    An excellent piece of research! I wonder if the "aquatite" cases referred to in note 6 are the Dennison 12322 cases used for the so called Economy watches? Is Aquatite a trade name Dennison used in the late 30's? We must remember that back then you could be a lot freer with your trade descriptions, so implying water resistance back then doesn't mean the same as it does today.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Revo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,014

    Default

    Wow, great piece of work here. Thanks Rod.

    I was talking to Owen Gilchrist about the GS De Luxe and he thinks the main design problem with it (and the reason it was not adopted) is the combination of a screwed balance wheel with a hacking lever ('stop-work' in Smiths own in-house parlance). If the lever comes down on the wheel at a time / place where it conflicts with one or more screws then the action is not exactly conducive to smooth operation or longevity! Hence the W10 (1967-'70) has a smooth balance . . . .

    Interesting, too, to see the development of shock-proofing in Smiths -- civilian models first got it in about 1957 (I think) and even then it was only on one side (the top jewel). By c.1959 many models had the word "shockproof" on the dial, proudly proclaiming their robustness.

    Re "Aquatite" -- I think these first appear in c.1950 with the writing engraved on the outside of the case back and a single-hole dustcap (to removed the stem retaining screw). This cover also acted as a sprung movement ring spacer. By c.1952 the outside of the back was plain and all the info (inc. s/n) was on the inside; I call these the 2nd version of the DA. Then there are the "56" cases (also used for the GS De Luxe) that are definitely Dennison but not branded "Aquatite". These have a different look / feel which immediate obvious -- visible even in poor pics. Much chunkier with a "deeper" back and the key slots closer together. However -- there is a 9ct gold Smiths on eBay at the moment with one of those "56" cases in solid gold that is also marked as "Aquatite"

    Gold "56" DA:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SM...oAAOSwvg9XWdid

    Compare that with these examples of the more common 2nd version of the DA case (usually in ss but here in gold):

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1962-SMITH...gAAOSwZ1BXeM2G

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SM...IAAOSwax5Yxnef
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Revo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,014

    Default

    Erratum: I think the GS De Luxe doesn't hack -- I can't find that workshop service manual which John Senior and Ken have posted up here, maybe it should? Possibly some confusion with the prototype Mk XI on my part. (Thanks to isologue for pointing this out to me.)

    (Unless it *should* have hacked but the screwed balance made it impossible?)
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    London (formerly Edinburgh)
    Posts
    1,342

    Default

    The Smiths GS Deluxe movement does hack.... but some supplied don't. There was speculation that some wouldn't need to hack depending on where they were deployed. There certainly was discussion during the design regarding who needed the hacking function, and who didn't.

    I think having a hack lever with a screwed balance wheel is less likely to be an issue when there is shock protection present. Clearly a more elegant solution when a smooth-rimmed balance is used, unless you apply the braking to the upper or lower edge of the rim to avoid the screw heads.

  9. #9

    Default

    Good summary Rod.

    Here's the notes taken for the first meeting mentioned:




  10. #10
    Moderator dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    6,201

    Default musings and conjecture

    09/51:
    The MoS mention that they have been asked to order 9400 MkVII watches for the Air Ministry from Switzerland. It is suggested that they could instead order GS spec watches instead...

    11/51:
    22nd ESCC meeting. There is discussion around the urgency for supplying MkVII watches to the Air Ministry which it has already been suggested could be substituted for GS watches. Due to the urgency, it is suggested that these should be made in Switzerland...

    02/53:
    In a loose minute, GS spec revisions are discussed. It is recommended that a “Mk11 watch with revised presentation” and an Omega GS watch are brought along to an ESCC meeting for inspection...
    can we perhaps put another nail in the coffin of the common statement in various guises -

    a total of 5900* Omega GS watches were supplied to the RAF...
    * delivered in May 1953


    the above mentioned number of 9400 watches is a figure which fits in much better with the known serial number range of the Omega 6B/542 GS watch.

    also Omega Extracts of the Archives suggest further deliveries in June and August 1953.


    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...r-the-Omega-53

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    can we perhaps put another nail in the coffin of the common statement in various guises -



    * delivered in May 1953


    the above mentioned number of 9400 watches is a figure which fits in much better with the known serial number range of the Omega 6B/542 GS watch.

    also Omega Extracts of the Archives suggest further deliveries in June and August 1953.


    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...r-the-Omega-53
    Hi Dave

    Yes, 9,400 is a plausible number for the '53 RAF Omega (see Zulu Time – British Military General Service Wristwatch).

    I have been keeping a detailed database of '53 RAF Omega watches (recorded over 400 so far).

    Rod's excellent summary in the above post is drawn from the same archival material I used when writing Zulu Time.

    Regards, Ken

  12. #12
    Member isologue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rodabod View Post
    The Smiths GS Deluxe movement does hack.... but some supplied don't. There was speculation that some wouldn't need to hack depending on where they were deployed. There certainly was discussion during the design regarding who needed the hacking function, and who didn't.
    So is the Smiths GS Deluxe actually their version of the Mark 11 that didn't meet the spec (G.943), but was then accepted as a GS watch? Whatever Smith's virtues were, they were hardly ever one step ahead in the wristwatch world, and producing a GS watch with a hack complication that was causing them design and production issues, when the GS spec didn't call for it (not until DEF-3-B (1966): see 'Zulu Time') makes no sense to me.

    Regards,

    Martin (isologue)

    P.S. Good work on the above btw!

  13. #13
    Senior Member Revo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,014

    Default

    Martin et al.

    I suspect it was enough that we had on-shore, in-house manufacturing capabilities for a reasonably robust and accurate wristwatch (as well as lever escapements for timers, fuses, etc) in case imports ever got cut off again. To expect Smiths to meet the quality (and other criteria) of Swiss or American watches is asking a lot but keeping Cheltenham going as a viable possible alternative just in case was of paramount importance and matter of national security.

    Lenior et al would have remembered the dark days of trying to procure tooling and machinery even while France was falling, then smuggling jewels out via Lisbon in a specially constructed suit and they wanted to ensure they would never be in that position again.

    It would be interesting to know if Dennison were also the recipients of special attention from the govt, as watches need cases . . . .
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    London (formerly Edinburgh)
    Posts
    1,342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by isologue View Post
    So is the Smiths GS Deluxe actually their version of the Mark 11 that didn't meet the spec (G.943), but was then accepted as a GS watch? Whatever Smith's virtues were, they were hardly ever one step ahead in the wristwatch world, and producing a GS watch with a hack complication that was causing them design and production issues, when the GS spec didn't call for it (not until DEF-3-B (1966): see 'Zulu Time') makes no sense to me.
    Hi Martin,

    I suspect the answer to this is that the spec was flexible to some extent. They omitted certain details deliberately for this reason (as detailed in the timeline of discussions above). You can see that despite the Inter Service design being aimed to be a universal design for all three services, they still had their own preferences. The first 300 GS watches ordered from Smiths were destined for the Air Ministry, and presumably they wanted a hack mechanism. The service sheet (thanks to John Senior) mentions the hack mechanism on the front cover:



    I don't believe the watch supplied as a "GS" was ever actually an early attempt at a Mk11. I think they were understandably slightly inexperienced when it came to making precision watches. The quality of the 1950's movements is up there, but it doesn't look like they had the right skills in adjusting, which at the time was possibly more of a black art than it is now.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Revo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rodabod View Post

    The first 300 GS watches ordered from Smiths were destined for the Air Ministry, and presumably they wanted a hack mechanism.
    I think the later DOS ones (1960) don't hack. But by then they'd had 5 or 6 years to discover the problem of hacking on a screwed balance!
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  16. #16
    Moderator dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    6,201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revo View Post
    I think the later DOS ones (1960) don't hack. But by then they'd had 5 or 6 years to discover the problem of hacking on a screwed balance!
    the D.O.S. watches appear to be reassigned general service 6645-99-910-1000 watches.

    and yes they shouldn't hack.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Revo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    the D.O.S. watches appear to be reassigned general service 6645-99-910-1000 watches.

    and yes they shouldn't hack.

    Yes, but with later (1960) movements. Do the Aussie ones hack?
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  18. #18
    Administrator ianp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    6,014

    Default

    That's a great post chock full of info

    IAP
    Order of the Invisible Ethereal Electron with Crossed Wizard's Wands

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •