Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: 2.23 vs 5.56

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,137

    Default 2.23 vs 5.56

    Hi All
    Been on the outer edge of the Ninja group mostly on the watch side. Have been waiting to pick up a good AR 15 before someone in DC figures a way to ban them. Anyway ran across this article and wanted to share it. I sure most already know it but interesting....Scott

    http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

  2. #2
    Senior Member lysander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,115

    Default

    The one thing he doesn't mention is no one I know of makes an "off-the-rack" .223 Remington spec chamber AR, they are all either military chamber or hybrids that allow for safe operation with military ammunition. AR shooters really don't have to worry about it, unless you make your own barrel...

    The other thing not mentioned is the specification shown is an old specification. The current pressure specifications (since October 1999) for M855, green tipped 62 grain military loads, have a maximum allowable average pressure of 58,700 psi, and a plus three sigma maximum of 64,700 psi.

    The really new stuff, M855A1 has an maximum allowable average pressure of 62,000 psi and a max plus three sigma of 66,000 psi. Stick that in a short throat SAAMI spec chamber, and you may start to push the 70,000 psi proof load level. (However, it's not like you'll run into much M855A1 Ball on the market.)

  3. #3
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mccoy View Post
    Hi All
    Been on the outer edge of the Ninja group mostly on the watch side. Have been waiting to pick up a good AR 15 before someone in DC figures a way to ban them. Anyway ran across this article and wanted to share it. I sure most already know it but interesting....Scott

    http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/
    The 5.56 shoots both. The Wilde chamber shoots both. The more important thing is barrel twist. 1-7" 1-9" or 1-12" VN Army barrel. Chrome lined or not?

    Consider that Colt chambered all of their commercial ARs in 223 and they are not problematic. If you plan on shooting GI surplus green tip, I'd get a 1-7" If you plan on shooting 55 gr surplus, get the 1-12". Mine has a Colt Chrome GI barrel 1-12" it shoots 2" at 100 yds, never jams and will last longer than I will or they will take it away. I had a 1-9" 5.56 heavy barrel for a while but it was picky about reloads and a pain in the ass.
    Were I you, I would go for a Rock River AR, they are quality rifles and reasonably priced. With a couple of specialty wrenches, a handfull of punches and a hammer you can assemble and change everything on these weapons. Forrest Gump could be an M16 armorer. You are smart to buy one now, the noose is tightening around us all of the time. In my state the politburo made me register mine 20+years ago. I cannot leave it to my family if I expire.

  4. #4
    Senior Member lysander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    ...Consider that Colt chambered all of their commercial ARs in 223 and they are not problematic....
    Colt AR's actual chamber dimensions are the same as the military M16/M4 chamber.

  5. #5
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    Colt AR's actual chamber dimensions are the same as the military M16/M4 chamber.
    Are you sure that the older ones are not .223? The SP-1s say Cal 223.

  6. #6
    Administrator ianp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    6,059

    Default

    So what AR are you looking at ?

    The modularity of the AR platform is one of its biggest attractions for me. Another is that you can do a bit of a DIY build on them. There are advantages to buying a completed rifle from a single manufacturer, but the DIY approach allows you to select the components that you want a build a rifle to your specific requirements. I particularly like the DIY approach as you get a really good understanding of the mechanism, how the rifle can be altered and components changed. The below images are culled from the net and are not endorsements, just representative examples of what is needed to build an EBR (Evil Black Rifle). Also please make sure that you are familiar with all laws regarding the characteristics that apply - things such as magazine capacity, OAL, the need for bullet button/featureless builds (I think these are just CA specific), etc.

    The only item requiring DROS is the receiver, so at a minimum maybe pick up one (or two) of these. This will then ensure you legally own an AR (or two). After that you have time to choose whatever components in whatever configuration you want.


    After that all you need are a few simple tools and a guide to follow

    A lower parts kit



    you can replace the standard trigger with something a whole lot better



    a butt stock



    a complete upper - this is built and tested by the manufacturer



    an hour or two to build things up and then some of the usual consumables



    IAP
    Order of the Invisible Ethereal Electron with Crossed Wizard's Wands

  7. #7
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,002

    Default

    It helps to make up your mind on how you will be using this. If you are just shooting targets then you will want a floating handguard and as Ian mentions a better trigger. Least expensive quality trigger is the Rock River two stage military which can be had for about $100+- They go up from there and a Jewel of Timny can run hundreds. If you want a carbine configuration like the M4, you must match the buffer and spring to that barrel size. The complete upper assemblies are reasonably priced or you can order a White Oak and wait a year and pay $700. The cool thing about this platform is that you can keep a separate upper and it can be in a target configuration and a carbine for business. You will find out how much fun these things are. anyone can shoot them and shoot accurately. Be careful with optic sights, they are expensive and EOTEC the largest supplier of these sights to the military is in the middle of a massive recall and refund situation. It seems that a drop in temperature will move the point of impact significantly. They were sued by the government because they knew the problem existed yet did nothing.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    This is what I just got along with a Bushmaster. BCM® RECCE-18 KMR-A Precision

  9. #9
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,002

    Default

    Nice unit. It has the full floating tube so it should be a tackdriver. That will definitely work. Choose your sights wisely.

    You will need to buy tactical underwear, tactical ammunition, tactical slings, tactical bags to tactically carry them, tactical glasses, tactical earmuffs, .....you get the picture........

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    I'm a newbie on these but wanted to get one or2 or 3 before they screw things up. A friend of mine here is a retired cop and is helping me rig it out. He also builds them. Were going up to our ranch next week to Axis hunt and try out the new toys. Will add some pics

  11. #11
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mccoy View Post
    I'm a newbie on these but wanted to get one or2 or 3 before they screw things up. A friend of mine here is a retired cop and is helping me rig it out. He also builds them. Were going up to our ranch next week to Axis hunt and try out the new toys. Will add some pics
    Before you go you'll need to get a couple of those cool A-rab scarves and wrap them around your neck. Operators must have them. Sounds like a fun time. We actually have some axis deer out here out along the coast in Marin. Smart move buying these while you can. Pick up a fewK of ammo as well. That is where this will eventually go. No bullets, no gun.

    Did you ever get that Vigor plating machine? Did the scans come through?
    D

  12. #12

    Default

    Scott, I'm in just about the same position as you on AR's. I've always wanted one but it was never much of a priority until now. Over the course of several months last year, I purchased 3; an older model HBAR match rifle, a standard A4 and a carbine (all Colts). I figured that would just about cover the bases on AR's in case they became difficult to acquire. They are lots of fun and, of course, come with their own learning curve just like handguns, mil watches and all the other toys that we enjoy so much. I really need to take Dave's suggestion and start squirreling away some ammo. Have a safe trip and enjoy the hunt.
    Tom

  13. #13
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,002

    Default

    Hi Tom,
    The ammo deal is a concern. During 2013 commercial ammunition just dried up. The fact that DHS had ordered a billion rounds probably had something to do with it, but it did offer a sweet deal to manufacturers to raise their prices. There hasn't been a brick of 22 around here since. Sometimes a box @$5+ but no more $20 bricks. The spin doctors said it was just caused by hoarders and blamed us. That is complete bullshit. Imagine ever trying to get ammunition for say a 25-35, 257 Roberts, 22HP, or even a large supply of 22WMR? These will just stay rare and expensive. Primers and powder are also scarce and expensive. 1000 primers used to be about $10-15 now they are $30. Powder was about $18 lb now it is $25-30. Lead will soon become a hazardous metal and they will cut off lead bullets. Obama just closed down the only lead smelter in America. I recommend reloading.

  14. #14
    Senior Member river rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Montana USA
    Posts
    2,717

    Default

    Dave bricks of 22 started showing up in Montana bought one last year should of bought more but I still got a brick I bought in Calf when it was not hard to find years ago. They last for ever I get bored shooting 22 probably why it last so long. They did sell out fast on those bricks of 500 rounds of 22.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,137

    Default

    Well got up to the ranch the other day to turkey hunt and do some shooting of the new AR's. So didn't see turkey or Axis. We went to the house to mainly just Bullshit and someone on the next ranch cranked up a chainsaw and out of the trees ran 12 Axis. 4 had hugh horns and there may have been more but they were 400 yds and was on the neighbors ranch so they got a free pass. Going up Sunday for turkey and maybe an Axis or two.
    I did order 2 of the 2 stage triggers from RRA. They had a sale for $87 bucks I think. I called them after a month and asked where my triggers were. He said they were just finishing orders from Dec. so maybe get mine in May before I head to Colorado. You guys may know this site but for those that don't it a good place to find Ammo.
    http://ammoseek.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •