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Thread: Re-made DEF-3 / A.F.0210 / Type 37 pattern strap?

  1. #1
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Default Re-made DEF-3 / A.F.0210 / Type 37 pattern strap?

    Thanks to mwr members for ensuring I have no unsold VB straps left on my hands! (Hands? Wrists!) Certainly helps the old cashflow. They proved incredibly popular

    And if you don't know what I'm talking about have look here: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...-B-Hygenienque

    I hope the mods / admin won't mind me re-posting what I said on that thread here:

    "I am considering having some made to the pattern, maybe slightly longer and with brass buckles. Need to find the right canvas material, it's quite loosely woven and coarse and is either cotton or possibly a cotton / linen mix. Could probably get some old webbing, I have a Dutch army bag from the 40's or 50's that is pretty much perfect. That way the fabric would be genuine old stock. I have a friend who's handy with a sewing machine. People could then wear the new ones as a daily choice and keep the NOS ones for display / reference / best."

    However, since I wrote that I have been informed that remaking the V.B. might prove difficult: the "NATO" style with the foldover safety loop, fabric keepers and "buttonhole" stitching are all material- and labour-intensive.

    However, re-making the DEF-3 / A.F.0210 / Type 37 pattern strap might be easier as it's a simpler design: much less stitching as the buckle pin just pushes through the weave like it does on a perlon strap. There's also no NATO / G10 "foldover", just a one-piece pull-through so there's less fabric used.

    Like these:

    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...rap#post118543

    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...ass#post184331

    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...rap#post148660

    http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...ds-to-be-seen-!

    It might be nice to get them marked "M.W.R.0210" (or similar) in permanent ink stamped on the underside so there's some nod to their heritage but no confusion with the old ones. (I'm not into fakes. A good homage or a twist on a classic, yes, but not "replicas" designed to mislead.) Maybe add a broadarrow, too (yes I *know* it's called a pheon, I did Greek at seminary) -- unless that's crown copyright?

    If I could source a suitably coarse cotton canvas webbing plus some brass hardware who would be up for one? Or, better still, ten?

    No promises, just gauging demand. Any takers?

    Cheers

    Ollie
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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    Member Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Ollie
    I would be up for one (or two).
    It's a great idea I have an army surplus shop near by, I am happy to pop in to see if they have anything that might suit if it helps.

  3. #3
    Member workahol's Avatar
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    Totally on board.

    - Matt

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    Moderator lambstew's Avatar
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    Count me in for at least two

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    I would be interested in up to five. Any idea regarding the pricing?

    Regards

    Th. Koenig

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    Member BillyCasper's Avatar
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    Yes please, without the NATO extra bit and 18mm
    Law's in the wash this week

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    I'd take a million...................................well okay maybe not a million, but certainly some!

  8. #8
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    OK, I'll look into it.

    Sinnlover: I'll PM you re the army surplus stores fabric.

    I think isologue and BillyCasper have original A.F.0210 straps, I may ask if I can borrow them for reference. PMs on their way . . .


    I've asked around for some 18mm brass buckles and NATO loops; my guess is they would fit on 17mm bars as well with a little squashing-up.
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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    Member BillyCasper's Avatar
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    Ollie,

    Yes you can borrow my strap. It is 16mm and quite short because it has been trimmed at some point. I have an admission to make, it was pretty filthy when it arrived, so I washed it in natural soap. Unfortunately it washed the ink markings away.

    I also have the technical drawing courtesy of hqsandmanute.

    By the way are you anywhere near Winchcombe?

    Regards,
    Law's in the wash this week

  10. #10
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    Ollie,

    Yes you can borrow my strap. It is 16mm and quite short because it has been trimmed at some point. I have an admission to make, it was pretty filthy when it arrived, so I washed it in natural soap. Unfortunately it washed the ink markings away.

    I also have the technical drawing courtesy of hqsandmanute.

    By the way are you anywhere near Winchcombe?

    Regards,
    Thanks David, I'm in the midlands.

    Although I was very near Winchcombe yesterday: in Cheltenham, where I lived for a while (hence my love of Smiths watches). Then I went on for a spot of fly fishing on a small stream in the Cotswolds. Lovely part of the world!

    I think I'll be looking to make them in 18mm and maybe 10" long.

    No worries about the ink marks, I'm an expert forger -- I was a printer in civvie street and that's why I'm on the escape committee :-)
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    OK, a quick update.

    A couple of members are sending me their DEF-3 / A.F.0210 / Type 37 straps

    Another member pointed me towards Steve O's canvas NATO straps

    Finally, using some odds and ends in my strap box I knock up this earlier today. Took all of 10 mins and it shows but it's made with parts I can easily source:







    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  12. #12
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Update: I have been in touch with a couple of strap makers and a lot of fabric suppliers.

    I can do these in 20mm easily. 18mm not so easily. Still working on it. Will keep you posted.

    I could make the one pictured above all day, that's easy. Looks good and works well too, been wearing one all week. But not quite the DEF-3 / A.F.0210 / Type 37 spec.
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  13. #13
    Senior Member foilguy's Avatar
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    Got your hand

  14. #14
    Member BillyCasper's Avatar
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    I like the rounded ends
    Law's in the wash this week

  15. #15
    Moderator Revo's Avatar
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    Thanks. That's 18mm and dead easy to make, could also do them in 20mm. They're a two-ply sandwich construction, hence the stitching along the edge. Soft, comfy, flexible, 100% cotton. I've been wearing it for a week on a CWC and it's good.

    But to my mind it's not quite right. I'll wait until the genuine straps arrive, but from the pictures and based on the DEF drawings there seems to be a degree of variation: some single strips of canvas webbing tape folded over at the end to take the metalware, others are two-ply construction. Also, some variation in colour from a very green green to a greyer khaki. Anyway, I can source good canvas webbing tape in 15mm and 20mm but what I really want to do is get some in 18mm. I might have to see if I can get some made to measure, a bespoke order. Not sure if that's possible but worth a go.

    Martin (isologue) & Mike (T.O.W.S.) have posted pics of two different A.F.0210 straps that are stitched round and seem to be two-ply:












    But Ken's pictures seem to be the single ribbon of fabric:










    Although the DEF spec sheets seems to say "2-ply"

    [/QUOTE]

    Anyway, I'll see what I can do.

    Hope to get my hands on some originals soon which will help in getting the look and feel right. Getting the webbing in the right width would also be a major step forward.

    Cheers
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

  16. #16
    Member Darlinboy's Avatar
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    I'll go for a couple once you get it sorted. Thanks!

  17. #17
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    One for me please
    You are what you do when it counts...

  18. #18

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    Revo,

    I'll take two 18 mm straps when available please.

    Terry

  19. #19
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    I will take an 18mm and a 20mm

    David

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    I like the rounded ends
    Thanks David, actually the rounded ends on ones I can make easily in 18mm (pictured) and 20mm are very similar to the Drawing 337-5, they are also 2-ply and stainless steel hardware, so the more I think about it the happier I am with them.

    Also, a week into a test and it's holding up well and looking the part.
    "Early this year I saw ex-army watches exhibited in a showcase at a little under 4 each. A week or two later I succeeded in buying one of them for 5. Recently their price seems to have risen to 8." (George Orwell, "As I Please", Tribune, 29th November 1946)

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