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Thread: Adams Patent Cal 50...need a bt of advice

  1. #21
    Junior Member Hammond_Egger's Avatar
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    Being in Germany, I should hope you can find percussion caps made by RWS, as they are a German company and are made in Germany
    The cones used in your revolver do look larger than the ones used in American made ones of the same era.

    Look what I found lurking in my basement:



    I do not know how much shipping would be, but you are welcome to them!
    I'll Keep My Guns, Freedom, & Money. You Can Keep The "Change"

  2. #22
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    Gee...that is a generous offer which I can't refuse, thanks, can you send me a PM on the shipping cost and I'll reimburse you.
    My thanks once again for all the constructive help from DaveH, nepman, lysander, Matchetero, river rat, and Hammond_Egger.

    Regards

    Jimmy
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  3. #23
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
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    Jimmy: I can assure you that once you get that rascal running you will see what fun these things are. Especially having a firearm of the best possible quality. Do not be afraid to ask for anything or help that you may need.
    D

  4. #24
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    Thanks Dave, I can't wait to shoot it!
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  5. #25
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    On Ziggy's site I found this nice piece, which I bought, seeing as Hammond_Egger didn't stand to his offer
    It cost an arm and a leg, but...we only live once








    Is there anything I need to know about how to use this? ...I'll try and make my own

    Jimmy
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  6. #26
    Senior Member lysander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papazulu View Post
    Is there anything I need to know about how to use this? ...I'll try and make my own

    Jimmy
    Pretty straight-forward - the mold is probably broken-in and good and oxidized on the inside, so no need to worry about that.

    the rest can be read here: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...Casting101.htm

  7. #27
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    Pretty straight-forward - the mold is probably broken-in and good and oxidized on the inside, so no need to worry about that.

    the rest can be read here: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...Casting101.htm
    Well, I'll be f.... darned, I got myself some lead, an oven, and made a handful of bullets out of the mold I bought from Ziggy, a fat lot of good they are, I can throw them in...It cant be right, surely???
    I just measured the diameter of the lead bullets Ca. 1.08 cm = 0.4 in... Ziggy told me his mold is a cal 54???










    Last edited by papazulu; 01-17-2015 at 08:02.
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  8. #28
    Senior Member DaveH's Avatar
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    I would try and contact Lee or Lyman. They make thousands of different molds. Your chances of finding one that will work are good. I would also slug the bore if possible to get the exact size. This involves putting a close sized ball in the bore and tapping it through with a wooden dowel. But be careful and don't get something stuck that you can't get out. Be very careful. I see some of your bullets are not well formed, this is from not having the mold well heated. The mold will usually take several bullets to get up to a good temperature. You can also just have a corner of the mold sit in molten lead for a few minutes to get it hot. Never use any release agents or oil in the mold. It also looks like you are casting some hard alloy with Linotype or wheel weights involved. These alloys work great with cartridges that are being shot out of 38 specials or 45 automatics, but are not good for these black powder guns. You should cast with pure lead or something close. The guns rely on the bullets or balls being swaged into correct diameter to shoot well. So a slightly oversized soft lead bullet is what you want.
    It looks like the bullets you are casting are much smaller than the mold cavity, again, this is probably because the mold is too cool.

  9. #29
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    Thanks again for your answer Dave, I did heat the molds, and you are right, the first couple were poured into a warm but not heated mold, which gradually became hotter and the casts became better but...the size must be wrong, as there is at least 1/10 inch play, the bullets just fall in without any need to ram them in!
    The mold was sold to me as size Cal 54, which it can't be! What Cal. would that make my gun???
    Is there a conversion table anywhere online, saying Cal 54 would be xxx inch in diameter, or something like that?

    Sorry for these stupid questions!

    Just found this on wikipedia:
    Common calibers in inch and their metric equivalents[4][5][6][7] Inch caliber Metric caliber Typical bullet diameter Common cartridges Notes
    .20, .204 5 mm 0.204 in .204 Ruger, 5 mm Remington Rimfire Magnum
    .22 5.56 mm 0.2200.224 in (5.65.7 mm) .22 Long Rifle, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, 5.5645 mm NATO, 5.4539 mm, 5.728 mm 5.4539 mm bullet is actually 5.6 mm (AK-74)
    .24 6 mm 0.243 in .243 Winchester, 6 mm Remington, 6 mm plastic airsoft BBs
    .25 6.35 mm 0.25 in, 6.35 mm .25 ACP, 6.3516 mmSR or .25 auto and 6.35 mm Browning
    .26 6.5 mm 0.264 in, 6.7 mm 6.555 mm, .260 Remington cartridges commonly known as '6.5 mm'
    .27 6.8 mm 0.277 in, 7.035 mm .270 Winchester, 6.8 SPC
    .28 7 mm 0.284 in, 7.213 mm .280 Remington, 7 mm Remington Magnum, 757 mm, 7mm-08 Remington commonly called '7 mm'
    .30, .308 7.8 mm 0.308 in 300 AAC Blackout, .30-06 Springfield,
    .300 Winchester Magnum, 7.82 Lazzeroni Patriot, .30-30 Winchester, .308 Winchester, 7.6251mm NATO American ".30 caliber"
    .303, .31 7.9 mm 0.310.312 in (7.97.9 mm) .303 British, 7.6239, 7.6254R, 7.6225, 7.7x58 7.6254R is actually 7.92 mm (Mosin, SVD, PKM, etc.) The same applies to 7.6239 (AK-47, AKM, etc.)
    .323 8 mm 0.323 in 857mm IS, .325 WSM, 8 mm Remington Magnum, 8 mm plastic (airsoft) BBs .32 caliber rifle cartridges
    .338 8.6 mm 0.338 in .338 Lapua C14 Timberwolf (Canadian Forces)
    .357 9 mm 0.3550.357 in (9.09.1 mm) .38 Special, .380 ACP, .357 Magnum, .357 SIG, .35 Remington, 919 mm Parabellum, 918 mm Makarov, .357 in certain new Crosman precharged pneumatic (PCP) airguns. Handgun cartridges known as "38" are .357 caliber. Generally .357 for revolvers and rifles, .355 in autoloaders
    .40 10 mm 0.400 in .40 S&W, 10 mm auto
    .44 10.9 mm 0.429 in .44 Magnum
    .45 11.43 mm 0.450 in .45 ACP, .45 GAP, .454 Casull, .45 Long Colt .455 Webley
    .50 12.7 mm 0.510 in (12.95 mm) .50 BMG, .50 Action Express, 12.7108 mm M2 Browning machine gun and other heavy machine guns, long-range rifles typified by Barrett products
    Last edited by papazulu; 01-17-2015 at 10:12.
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member lysander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papazulu View Post
    W
    The "54" is not inches in tenths, but balls per pound, or 54 bore. 54 bore is .446 inches in diameter....

    The proper mold will be a 38 bore.

    It gets confusing dealing with old British black powder stuff. They always worked in "bore" or "balls-per-pound" not the actual diameter in inches.

    The old Brown Bess had a .75 to .76 inch barrel hole diameter but was referred to as a "10-bore", but used 15-bore lead balls (.69 cal). The British marketed Colt "Navies" (.36 caliber) were 100 bore (thereabouts).
    Last edited by lysander; 01-17-2015 at 11:03.

  11. #31
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    You always find a way to confuse me

    Thanks for lifting the fog

    but...the stamp on the mold, would be 54 bore? and not Cal. 54, or would it be the other way around?

    Whichever way, out pops a bullet which is only Ca. 1.08 cm = 0.4 in ???

    The .50 which would be 12.7 mm seems more like the size I need
    Last edited by papazulu; 01-17-2015 at 11:17.
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  12. #32
    Senior Member lysander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papazulu View Post
    You always find a way to confuse me

    Thanks for lifting the fog

    but...the stamp on the mold, would be 54 bore? and not Cal. 54
    If it is a British mold, and it does appear to be an original, yes. The "54" is 54 bore, with should be .446 inch or 11.3mm.

    What diameter balls/bullets is it making and what exactly is the diameter of the hole in the cylinder?

    (As an aside, I would get a lyman wooden handled mold for actual bullet making and save the original.)

    (aside, aside, now you see why the British gun making industry sold molds and powder flasks with the pistol in the box...)

  13. #33
    Senior Member lysander's Avatar
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    There is another thing that comes up now that I thing about it...

    To further confuse issues is the "bore" of the firearm is not the same as the "bore" of the ammunition.

    Take a Colt 1860, the barrel diameter is .440" in the lands and .450" in the grooves, the diameter of the cylinder hole is .451" and the diameter of the bullet is .454 to .457.

    This makes the British "bore" equivalents are a 54 bore barrel, and a 50 bore bullet.

    For a Colt 1851 Navy the diameters are :

    Barrel lands - .350"
    Barrel grooves - .360"
    Cylinder - .375"
    Bullet - .380"

    Giving a barrel a 100 bore and a 84 bore bullet.

    The same goes for muzzle loading stuff, except the ball/bullet diameter is smaller than the barrel hole diameter....

    That's why you need to measure the exact size of the cylinder hole to fine the correct diameter bullets. The moulds may have been marked to match the nominal "bore" of the firearm it was sold with,and not be a good representation of the actual bullet made.

  14. #34
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    Whichever way, out pops a bullet (out of the mould) which is only Ca. 1.08 cm = 0.4 in ???
    the diameter roughly measured, of the cylinder was ... 1.15cm = 0.45inch

    I'll measure the diameter of the cylinder again, using a digital micrometer
    Last edited by papazulu; 01-17-2015 at 12:18.
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
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  15. #35
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    Just measured the chambers again with a digital calipers, 11.24 - 11.26mm measured with probably not the best calipers available
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  16. #36
    Senior Member papazulu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    If it is a British mold, and it does appear to be an original, yes. The "54" is 54 bore, with should be .446 inch or 11.3mm.

    What diameter balls/bullets is it making and what exactly is the diameter of the hole in the cylinder?
    Thats what it says on the mould, but the outcome is smaller
    Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
    Sir Winston Churchill

  17. #37
    Senior Member lysander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papazulu View Post
    Just measured the chambers again with a digital calipers, 11.24 - 11.26mm measured with probably not the best calipers available
    11.25 mm = .44 cal (.443" to be exact). That should use a 54 bore bullet, nominally .446.

    As to why are they .425? See the last part of my last post.

    A 54 bore muzzle loading pistol or rifle, patched with greased soft leather, or chamois, would take about a .425 diameter bullet. The pin on the back of the bullet would be used to poke through a hole in the center of the round patch, ensuring the bullet was centered in the patch, and thus centered in the bore. This was typical for target shooting at the time.

  18. #38

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    Over the years I have restored many antique firearms including a couple of old Adams revolvers. I don't use firearms as nice as yours for target practice. I shoot with more well used antiques or a reproduction so I won't be sad if something brakes (I can make the parts, most folks can't).

    As for shooting cap and ball revolvers I like to use the round ball. Most of the time balls shoot with more accuracy and they are faster to load. I would suggest using a Lee aluminium mold. Be sure to smoke the mold cavity with a candle before using. Lee molds are excellent and inexpensive (no, I don't work for them):
    http://leeprecision.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

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