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Thread: Canadian Navy Tudor - No Serial Number?

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    Default Canadian Navy Tudor - No Serial Number?

    Hi Guys: When I became a Ship's Diver in the Canadian Forces, I was issued a Tudor Oyster Submariner watch. It was with great, and very happy, surprise when I released a few years ago and the watch had disappeared off of my supply docs. Anyway, long story short, I have been trying to find a little information on this watch. I took it to a jewler last week, and he assures me that the movement and everything is genuine, but for some reason there is no serial number marked on the case. I'm attaching the link to a few photos, and can tell you the inside of the case back is marked 9411 and the movement is marked 2776. It doesn't appear that the serial number is worn off or removed, but that there never was a number there to begin with. I've been all over the internet, but can't come up with a definite answer, and none of my navy buddies were lucky enough to escape with their watch for comparison. Any help out there? - Thanks

    http://s1108.photobucket.com/albums/...ent=Tudor3.jpg
    http://s1108.photobucket.com/albums/...ent=Tudor7.jpg

  2. #2
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    Well, have you tried looking between the lugs, where the serial number is supposed to be? Both my Canadian Military Tudors have serial numbers.

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    Moderator lambstew's Avatar
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    Default Hello and welcome..

    The issued Canadian Tudor submariners were not property marked. I've had 2 of these over the years and still retain one with the partially erased owner's rank & name engraved into the back (PO Cumberland)..(case serial number is found between the lugs)..

    I've been in touch with Rolex Canada (Toronto) and spoken with the head person there about these and he confirmed for me that these were unmarked, the case serial number being the thing that was likely recorded, a practice not unlike issued Vietnam era and just post war US UDT/Navy Seal Tudor submariners.

    Rolex recalls at least 3-4 orders of these being placed from the late 1970s-1990's..

    Cheers,

    Konrad

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambstew View Post
    The issued Canadian Tudor submariners were not property marked. I've had 2 of these over the years and still retain one with the partially erased owner's rank & name engraved into the back (PO Cumberland)..(case serial number is found between the lugs)..

    I've been in touch with Rolex Canada (Toronto) and spoken with the head person there about these and he confirmed for me that these were unmarked, the case serial number being the thing that was likely recorded, a practice not unlike issued Vietnam era and just post war US UDT/Navy Seal Tudor submariners.

    Rolex recalls at least 3-4 orders of these being placed from the late 1970s-1990's..

    Cheers,

    Konrad
    Yes, any marking that was ever done was at the local level, usually by the stores master, and usually embarrassingly ugly.

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    ..now if we could only motivate Rolex Canada to go through their records and give us exact order numbers/dates and the serial numbers..At the time he was unwilling to go to the trouble but admitted the information was still on hand..

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    Default More Clarification

    What I'm getting at is that there is no serial number between the lugs, either top or bottom. Both the jewler and another person that I spoke to said that it would be very strange for the case to be faked and the movement to be genuine. There is a four digit number scratched in between the lugs, but nothing that you would ever mistake for something done by Rolex / Tudor. The jewler also mentioned that the movement was probably made in the '80s or '90s. It was issued to me in 1997, but it wasn't new at the time. Was that more help or more did I thoroughly confuse everyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by photodiver View Post
    What I'm getting at is that there is no serial number between the lugs, either top or bottom. Both the jewler and another person that I spoke to said that it would be very strange for the case to be faked and the movement to be genuine. There is a four digit number scratched in between the lugs, but nothing that you would ever mistake for something done by Rolex / Tudor. The jewler also mentioned that the movement was probably made in the '80s or '90s. It was issued to me in 1997, but it wasn't new at the time. Was that more help or more did I thoroughly confuse everyone?
    Do you have a good macro lens? That is very odd that you can't find a factory serial number between the lugs. I wonder if you can perhaps take a picture of both between the lug areas at the top and bottom so we can see how it looks..

    What's also odd is that the model number you stated - 9411, should be for what's called a 'snowflake' model, with square dial markers and hands. Muddying the waters even more, the caliber ETA 2776 movement was for the earlier model 9401, the caliber ETA 2784 being correct for the 9411. The dial on your watch however is for the 9401, so it's possible the dial and movement were switched into the later case and the serial number possibly obliterated and that's why you aren't seeing anything..

    Let's see some between lug case shots please..

    Cheers,

    Konrad

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    Default Pictures introduced..

    Thanks for taking those. I have taken the liberty of posting them here so everyone can see what I was suspecting, that the model & case serial numbers have been obliterated, likely due to the fact that the watch was re-cased during a servicing and like Martin has mentioned is a crude, what I am guessing is a stores number scratched in..





    Hope this helps,

    Cheers,

    Konrad
    Last edited by lambstew; 04-04-2011 at 19:57.

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    Order of the Royal Turkey Guarded by Canines Recumbent with Oak Leaf Cluster bjp's Avatar
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    looks like the serial number was filed/rubbed/sanded away, and replaced with that scratched number. looks like you can sort of see some of the original number, however faint. but, I might be imagining that part.

    -ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by bjp View Post
    looks like the serial number was filed/rubbed/sanded away, and replaced with that scratched number. looks like you can sort of see some of the original number, however faint. but, I might be imagining that part.

    -ben



    Watch is definitely a 94010, and the interlug area has definitely been polished down, and a right angles to the rolex polishing marks. No good reason for that to have happened, except maybe if whoever had had issued to them before you had done it (for whatever reason). I can't imagine why the REME Instrument Techs would do *that*.

    My Canadian Navy Tudors have their model & serial numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambstew View Post
    ....What's also odd is that the model number you stated - 9411, should be for what's called a 'snowflake' model, with square dial markers and hands. Muddying the waters even more, the caliber ETA 2776 movement was for the earlier model 9401, the caliber ETA 2784 being correct for the 9411. The dial on your watch however is for the 9401, so it's possible the dial and movement were switched into the later case and the serial number possibly obliterated and that's why you aren't seeing anything..
    Actually, for some reason, the case-backs for the 94010 models are marked 9411, so considering the dial layout and correct 2776 (a rare caliber used almost exclusively by Tudor) I agree with Martin, that it's most probably a 94010 with serial # removed.

    cheers

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B View Post
    Actually, for some reason, the case-backs for the 94010 models are marked 9411, so considering the dial layout and correct 2776 (a rare caliber used almost exclusively by Tudor) I agree with Martin, that it's most probably a 94010 with serial # removed.

    cheers

    John
    Good info John I was just going through my notes which didn't mention what you said about the 94010 models having 9411 stamped guts..maybe this was a transitional thing??

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    Senior Member river rat's Avatar
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    I know some one at another forum who got his Dads Tudor Snowflake Sub his dad got it issued in the Canadian Navy no issue marks.He had to get a bezel for it that was missing when he got it.It now looks great from photo's I seen of it.So I don't think the Canadians put issue marks on them.Only why to document them is family history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by river rat View Post
    I know some one at another forum who got his Dads Tudor Snowflake Sub his dad got it issued in the Canadian Navy no issue marks.He had to get a bezel for it that was missing when he got it.It now looks great from photo's I seen of it.So I don't think the Canadians put issue marks on them.Only why to document them is family history.
    "Issue" marks, or something close to them, were put on (in an extremely haphazard way) during a brief period when someone in the upper ranks realized that these items were full of *gasp* radiation.

  16. #16
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    Default The markings of any Canadian....

    Forces watches was sporatic at best. Not at all like the British Forces.

    Drew

  17. #17

    Default Canadian milsub

    I have a Tudor 94010 and I was told by the seller in Calgary that it was an ex Canadian army watch. The watch was sold to me by a private seller. The price I paid was not loaded as military watches generaly are, and it has never had a bracelet on it. The serial number is engraved on the back in full.
    If these watches were obtained from Tudor we should be able to identify the batches, My watch is Ser No:1073XX, do any other members have a similar serial number on a reputed canadian milsub. Or did the seller tell me what I wanted to hear

    Thanks,
    Marcus

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    Default It's amazing that you were...

    issued this as late as 1997. When I was a NAV SIG back in the 80's they were getting few and far between. FDU got them, but not all ships or combat divers got them. SAR TECHS did though.

    Drew

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    Default Marcusg, Canadian Tudor

    Marcus,
    I have one as well. Engraving on the back has the serial number 1075**. it currently has a black triangle dial.
    I got lucky and paid a "normal" price for mine as well.

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    Thanks, everyone. It's nice to know what I actually have here in my hand. Too bad about the serial number, it looks a little too professional to have been done by a user, I'm thinking some rogue supply tech request resulted in more than one of these. It's a great watch otherwise, I was thinking of selling but without the serial number I'll probably just keep it for myself. Now over to ebay to find some lugs and a band.

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